New Start Retrofit in House UPB vs Z Wave

[guy999]

I have been lurking in here for years and really would like to do a home automation project.

I have had control4 come out to my house for a bit but I felt like I was getting the hard sell, plus I do like to do things on my own if possible.

I have a small <100 dollar investment in UPB for training purposes.

What I would like to accomplish over time is the automation of my entire house.

1. House is 7000 square feet
2. lighting control, easily 150 switches, many dimmable, lots of cfl outside, lots of led outside and inside. Some dimmable led inside as well. Lots of 3 way switches
3. AV control, I have about 40 in wall speakers, each feeding to one of 6 pioneer recievers. I would like to be able to automate turning them on so that I can do whole house audio. The Speakers are not home run but instead are run to each "media closet" in each room(typically not a closet).
4. There is Cat 6 throughout the house, I have 72 ports, so most every place is close to a cat6 outlet or 2. I didn't run 3 to each of the tv's, I kinda wish I had but it's done now.
5. Security cameras, I have 16 of them, all hard wired to my dahua dvr, I can stream to my iphone but it's not that great.
6. Somfy blinds, Most of the first floor of the house has these and I would love to have them controlled.
7. I do have one or two pc's always on, so it's not hard to run control software on those pc's if needed
8. Alarm system-recently installed, it's a honeywell I believe ademco 20, I don't have the manual here. I did want one that could be controlled. I bought it outright so I don't have any contracts other than my monitoring

Anyways that's my house, it's pretty large, but I would like to do this, but I feel hindered in that I don't know what system would be able to control everything.

I live close to a UPB warehouse and was impressed by their stuff, but I am not sure that I can control everything in my house with their system.

I know that many people like different system and I have read a lot of stuff on here, but can I do everything with upb or zwave.

I just feel that a lot of threads are people that don't really love their system but they are invested so much that they try to continue it and rig it to work as best as possible.


of note, I do have some issues due to stone in my house that wireless is a issue. I actually had to put 3 wireless access points in the house to be able to get wifi everywhere, but I figure that zwaves repeating function would be useful, if it doesn't slow down too much, in that situation.



I feel somewhat paralyzed at where to go, so any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[tmbrown97]

I think few people here use a single protocol for everything. Z-Wave does have a larger selection of devices (thermostats, locks, etc). It's completely OK to mix more than one protocol. Also for things like blinds, many of us use relay boards of some sort; ideally from the security panel, but there are input/output modules for both UPB and Z-Wave that can accomplish the same.

For your audio, I'd look at the Sonos system; one model has a built-in amplifier, so it could directly drive the speakers and act/feel like a traditional whole house audio system while being broken out between each closet.

If you're hoping to tie all these systems together, take a good look at the software packages like Elve, CQC, HomeSeer and Premise... perhaps choosing a system that you like the best will help you figure out which modules/systems/protocols are available and help you narrow things down.

Just for example, there are probably 20 different ways a person could automate those shades... from relays off an alarm panel, a global cache wireless contact closure; zigbee or z-wave modules; UPB or Z-Wave input/output modules, etc - it's all about learning which one you like for various reasons (cost, accessibility, reliability, availability of wire to the location, etc) and building a system around it.

 

[pete_c]

I currently utilize (have in the house) X10, Insteon, UPB and Z-Wave.

I am looking to give Zigbee a try though.

I have not had issues with the said protocals running so far in the house.

 

[guy999]

I think few people here use a single protocol for everything. Z-Wave does have a larger selection of devices (thermostats, locks, etc). It's completely OK to mix more than one protocol. Also for things like blinds, many of us use relay boards of some sort; ideally from the security panel, but there are input/output modules for both UPB and Z-Wave that can accomplish the same.

For your audio, I'd look at the Sonos system; one model has a built-in amplifier, so it could directly drive the speakers and act/feel like a traditional whole house audio system while being broken out between each closet.

If you're hoping to tie all these systems together, take a good look at the software packages like Elve, CQC, HomeSeer and Premise... perhaps choosing a system that you like the best will help you figure out which modules/systems/protocols are available and help you narrow things down.

Just for example, there are probably 20 different ways a person could automate those shades... from relays off an alarm panel, a global cache wireless contact closure; zigbee or z-wave modules; UPB or Z-Wave input/output modules, etc - it's all about learning which one you like for various reasons (cost, accessibility, reliability, availability of wire to the location, etc) and building a system around it.

i actually already have sonos,i guess i should have written that, but the problem is that sono outputs only 2 speakers and also you need to connect the speakers directly to the sonos system, i use the speakers for my sound for my tv, so they are hooked up to a reciever so I need something that can turn the reciever on, change input, change volume etc.

I did use sonos over christmas because i have 5 of the S5 units and was able to do chrismas music, but I really want the sound to be able to go through the inwall speakers, plus sonos with amp is about 400 each and I would need about 5 more of them also.

I'm glad to hear that I can use multiple different protocols, I have been looking at HAL or homeseer regarding that possibility.

 

[tmbrown97]

You may want to look at JWilson's info about how he used a bunch of separate receivers to create a whole-house-audio effect. Yours would be a little different since things aren't centralized, but it may give you some ideas.
http://cocoontech.com/forums/blog/8/entry-119-nowplaying-2012-showcase/

 

[jml]

If you are willing to put everything into itunes, then apple's AirPlay functionality works really well with many airport expresses. The Airport express has a volume control. I use them with remote-turn-on amps. Anyone on our wireless network can stream from whatever ipad/phone app they want (we use spotify mostly these days) to any room in the house. The only catch is that in order to stream to multiple rooms at once, it has to be media that is part of your itunes library.

One the topic of zwave vs. upb, if you have LED and CF lights that are theoretically dimmable, you might want to experiment with different dimmer to see if they work. Dimable LEDs do not work with my Vizia zwave dimmers - they flicker.

 

[123]

What a juicy assignment! You have all the components of a spectacular smart home and just need the glue to bind it together.

Go to the Downloads section and grab a copy of this schematic. Study it. Next, get a napkin (or, in your case, a bed sheet) and start drawing a diagram of the equipment you currently own. Stand back to appreciate the magnitude of the task. Wow! Now sub-divide the challenge into bite-size projects. To test the waters, maybe try UPB lighting (using the gear you own) with some free or trial-version software. If you fall in love with that, great, take a bigger bite. If it makes you sick, call Control4 and negotiate a deal to use your mansion as a show-piece.

Assuming you're bitten by the HA bug, hang the bed sheet in your great room and start listing all the drivers you'll need to communicate with your lighting, security, video, and entertainment gear. Pick an HA app that has all of the drivers you need. OK, that's a fool's errand; it is unlikely one app has them all. What to do? Will you create the missing drivers? Do you have the time and skills? Will you pay someone to create them for you? Can you accept living without it? Face that reality now because home-brew HA sometimes means you have to build (or contract) the last mile of road.

So you found an HA app that support 95% of what you have and you're willing to live without the missing 5%. Great! Referring to your bed sheet schematic, make a list of floors and rooms in your home indicating gear and services by zone. What additional wiring runs, or wireless devices, are needed to stitch everything together? Will you be fishing cables or will someone else? Identify the rooms that will require special attention.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[guy999]

If you are willing to put everything into itunes, then apple's AirPlay functionality works really well with many airport expresses. The Airport express has a volume control. I use them with remote-turn-on amps. Anyone on our wireless network can stream from whatever ipad/phone app they want (we use spotify mostly these days) to any room in the house. The only catch is that in order to stream to multiple rooms at once, it has to be media that is part of your itunes library.

One the topic of zwave vs. upb, if you have LED and CF lights that are theoretically dimmable, you might want to experiment with different dimmer to see if they work. Dimable LEDs do not work with my Vizia zwave dimmers - they flicker.

I do have itunes but most of my music these days is from pandora. I paid for the no ad's account and it's great,

I do have some airport expresses and used to use them on trips, but I'm hopeful that i can implement the sonos' as a source because of it's flexibility on playing different things.

I have led's that are dimmable, i need to go check and see if upb has a dimmer for led's..

 

[guy999]

What a juicy assignment! You have all the components of a spectacular smart home and just need the glue to bind it together.

Go to the Downloads section and grab a copy of this schematic. Study it. Next, get a napkin (or, in your case, a bed sheet) and start drawing a diagram of the equipment you currently own. Stand back to appreciate the magnitude of the task. Wow! Now sub-divide the challenge into bite-size projects. To test the waters, maybe try UPB lighting (using the gear you own) with some free or trial-version software. If you fall in love with that, great, take a bigger bite. If it makes you sick, call Control4 and negotiate a deal to use your mansion as a show-piece.

Assuming you're bitten by the HA bug, hang the bed sheet in your great room and start listing all the drivers you'll need to communicate with your lighting, security, video, and entertainment gear. Pick an HA app that has all of the drivers you need. OK, that's a fool's errand; it is unlikely one app has them all. What to do? Will you create the missing drivers? Do you have the time and skills? Will you pay someone to create them for you? Can you accept living without it? Face that reality now because home-brew HA sometimes means you have to build (or contract) the last mile of road.

So you found an HA app that support 95% of what you have and you're willing to live without the missing 5%. Great! Referring to your bed sheet schematic, make a list of floors and rooms in your home indicating gear and services by zone. What additional wiring runs, or wireless devices, are needed to stitch everything together? Will you be fishing cables or will someone else? Identify the rooms that will require special attention.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

I do like that, and currently have 3 of those 48 port switches in my media closet, so that ought to make this fun.

I guess I need to do as you say and whiteboard it.

I have a wiring guy who works for me on the weekends, usually sundays, for extra money so it's pretty easy for me to get extra wiring, well not easy but at least I'm not doing the crawling myself.

 

[tmbrown97]

I have led's that are dimmable, i need to go check and see if upb has a dimmer for led's..

I have about 32 dimmable LED's in my house and they dim just fine with Simply Automated UPB switches, as do dimmable CFL's. I haven't had any of the problems I've experienced with prior X10 or motion sensors, etc.

 

[guy999]

I have about 32 dimmable LED's in my house and they dim just fine with Simply Automated UPB switches, as do dimmable CFL's. I haven't had any of the problems I've experienced with prior X10 or motion sensors, etc.

i was looking it up and the switching that upb makes to dim led's are 350 bucks, is that correct? seems pretty high?

 

[JonW]

Who the heck makes a UPB switch that is $350? All normal UPB switches can dim the LED's, nothing special needed.

 

[guy999]

Who the heck makes a UPB switch that is $350? All normal UPB switches can dim the LED's, nothing special needed.

awesome, thanks very much, I have about 4 switches in my house that control led's and I really didn't want to spend 1200 dollars automating them. I put them in the parts of the house that are used the most so that I could get my money back faster before I decided to automate.

 

[guy999]

well i am going with upb, so i just bought 4 sa-us240's so hopefully this all goes well, and if you don't see me again I electrocuted myself this weekend

 

[tmbrown97]

PLEASE read my article about UPB in my signature - it explains key differences throughout the Simply Automated product line. I say that because the 240's are a misunderstood switch IMO. They have their place, but they're not a universal switch as they may seem on the surface - in many situations a 1140 is much more appropriate. Not to say you can't use a 240 like a normal 1140, but there are key differences.

Also - not sure what $350 switch you saw, but 1140's and 240's and 2240's dim LED just fine... I run a bunch of 1140's and 240's and have 30+ dimmable CFL's in my house and they mesh just fine.