New to Elk M1G - Need some suggestions

[HoustonFirefox]

Hi All,

New to the board and love the discussions! They have helped me quite a bit with my new M1G installation. So far I've hooked up the control panel (in it's final location) as well as the keypad. I've terminated the zones at the control with the 2200 ohm resistors until I can run the zone wiring (this weekend).

I've also purchased (and not yet hooked up): Elk siren, two strobes, Z-wave interface (X-10 stuff died awhile back) as well as the ethernet option to hard-wire into my LAN.

I have a few questions.

1) Not knowing any better, I purchased Cat 3e cabling for the zones (4 conductor, not sure of the wire gauge). Will this be sufficient for wiring the zones? (about 8 total).

2) Can I use this same wiring for the two strobes and one siren?

3) I'm very interested in a thermostat for this setup. Since it is a single zone, what is a low-cost solution for this? (simple A/C electric heat/cool. I have a programmable thermostat on it now but would like to be able to set the temp from the M1

4) What is the best way to interface the M1 to my hard-wired garage door button to open/close the garage door? I will have the door zoned for open/closed sensing.

Thanks in advance for any help!

HoustonFirefox

 

[RandyKnight]

I'm new to the M1 as well (just picked mine up yesterday in fact) but I'll give these a shot based on my limited knowledge.

1. Do you mean Cat5e? In any case, it should be fine. In fact I've been told a lot of people are just going to Cat5 for sensors instead of 22 gauge since Cat5 is so ubiquitous.

2. Same as above.

3. I'm going with an RCS thermostat. I got mine for about $275. My understanding is the HAI tstats are the cheapest. Martin can hook you up with either one.

4. I haven't done this yet but the idea I heard was to hardwire an Elk relay to it. I'm also thinking of doing this for sprinkler valves, landscape lighting, etc.

 

[Steve]

Welcome to CocoonTech!

Remember, the EOLs on the M1 are optional. If you do not place them at the sensor it is worthless to keep them on the control. The option is programmed in ElkRP.

1. Should be ok
2. I prefer a little thicker wire for sirens. Sirens can draw an amp or even a little more. Personally I use 18ga for sirens, but I always err on the side of caution. I use a chart like this when trying to figure out what size wire to use. I usually use the power transmission column. You will see that 24GA (cat5) is only rated to around .5 amps there. Maybe I'm overly cautious but that s what I do.
3. The HAI is the least expensive but also least flexible. If you have power at the stat it should be fine, otherwise the RCS is a nice choice.
4. This is easy - just wire from output 3 (unless you use it for the strobe) or a relay (I like the M1RDB board with the LEDs) to your pushbitton or head unit. Attach the wires to the same screws as the pushbutton. Write a rule to turn the output on for 2 or 3 seconds. Each time you turn the output on it will toggle the door (like pressing the button). There is also a how-to on this that is more complete.

Good luck and welcome to the M1 club...

 

[Spanky]

Need to clarify, you said you purchased an ELK Siren. Was that a self contained electronic siren built into a speaker enclosure or just a speaker. The M1 has a siren driver built in. All you need is an 8 ohm speaker to connect to Output 1 for siren and voice or Output 2 for siren sounds only (normally used for outside use).

If you are going to connect a self contained siren to Output 2, make sure you change the program operation of Output 2 to voltage output instead of siren output in the Globals programming.

Welcome aboard.

 

[HoustonFirefox]

Thanks for all of the input! (pardon the pun, we ARE talking home automation here

CABLING STUFF:
RandyKnight: Nope, you didn't mesread. There really is such a thing as CAT 3 cabling (4 conductor, 24 gauge) and that's what I'm hoping to use (since I bought a thousand feet of the stuff!). It says it is rated for 10Mbps and I guess it must be old-school cabling (?)

Z-WAVE STUFF:
I just installed the ELK-M1XZW (Z-wave) interface between my one (and only) keypad and have it blinking a status light every second. In addition, the red xmit light blinks rapidly every minute or two (?). I used my Intermatic Home Settings HA07 to "Copy TA" all of the devices to the ELK-M1XZW and after about 30 seconds it says "successful" but I cannot get the ELK M1G to change any of the lights. When I press the # on the keypad to change a light from On to Off (or vice-versa) then nothing happens. In addition, when I change the state while looking at the XMIT light, I do not see a transmission.

SIREN:
The siren just came in today. It is the ELK-45 Self-contained unit. Wire sizes anyone?


This is a brand-new M1G installation so maybe I missed something? I see the M1XZW show up as an enrolled device (type 5 expander) so I'm not sure what is going on. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I'll let you guys in on a little known secret in regards to sirens. I use the Moose MPI-47 brand of "piezo screamers" for all my siren applications now. They only draw 175 milliamps of current and yield 112 db of sound at 1 meter!!

Some details can be seen HERE.

A good description of their sound is it is like someone is trying to drill a large hole through your head!

They are under $11 from Worthingtons (Cat #'s MPMPI-47, MPMPI-47B, MPMPI-47C, MPMPI-47E).

You will not be able to stay in the same room that these sirens are installed in for more than a few seconds when they go off.

They make flush mounts, surface mounts, and (never used these) mounts for J-Boxes. Since they draw so little current you do not need to increase your wiring diameter (size) for them (22 awg is overkill). Plus they will not load down your precious 12 volts on your security system.

I like the flush mounts as nobody can hack into them and they make for a very professional install. You can see some pics of them in THIS thread.

An intruder would need to be half deaf to be able to stay in a home with a few of these going off. I installed three in my friends house recently (master bedroom, hallway, and garage) and just tested them with a nine volt battery (did this last weekend). Just today, I had a 12 volt power supply and asked him if he would like to hear them with "full voltage". He said (very emphatically) NO, please do NOT test those sirens again!

I also have to admit that this product was highly suggested to me by Leo Soderman (he used to run Las Vegas’s Worthingtons and also ASI Home). I always listened to Leo as he knew what he was talking about.

Also you do need to drill a large hole for the flush mount (something a little under two inches I believe). I forget the exact diameter as my friend did this for me as he does a lot of woodworking and had an entire hole saw set.

 

[RandyKnight]

CABLING STUFF:
RandyKnight: Nope, you didn't mesread. There really is such a thing as CAT 3 cabling (4 conductor, 24 gauge) and that's what I'm hoping to use (since I bought a thousand feet of the stuff!). It says it is rated for 10Mbps and I guess it must be old-school cabling (?)

I guess what threw me was the "e". Never heard of Cat 3e, only 5e. I've been doing Ethernet since the days of thicknet with vampire taps so I've seen just about every crazy cable there is.

 

[Smarty]

BraveSirRobbin,
What can I say but THANK YOU!!!

Those piezos are sweet; I have been hoping to stumble across something like them.

 

[Spanky]

Make sure you have programmed the light as "Serial Expander" in the light setup on the M1. Otherwise it will not talk to the serial expander to transfer the light command.

 

[HoustonFirefox]

Update: Just hooked up the M1G ethernet expansion and what can I say but WHOA! 8)

It is cool to be able to control the M1G through the network. My only recommendations for this unit are that (1) they lower the price for such a modest module and (2) stop using Java to run the control. I'm a programmer by trade and Java is so "five years ago" since it requires about 1.5 terabytes (slight exageration) for it's runtime library. Plus, Java is Sssssllllooooowwwww. Basing the unit on a .NET framework would be a neat upgrade

I'm busy installing the zone wiring into an already-built house but so far it is working out great.

Word to the wise: Stay AWAY from the Elk-45 self-contained siren when testing! It's been turned off for more than an hour now and I can STILL hear it ringing in my ears! (wonder where the headache came from?!)

Still can't get the Z-wave devices to respond to the M1 panel although they work fine with my HomeSeer PC (which is 20 feet FURTHER away). The status light blinks once a second on the Zwave interface though so I guess it's happy 8?

Will be checking in occasionally to cool off from the attic cable runs 8)

Thanks again everyone for all the help. You guys are the greatest.

 

[Herdfan]

Great info here.

My M1G is being installed Tuesday. My old DSC system bit the dust and my alarm company is also an Elk dealer, so that's what I went with.

Is there an ELK FAQ anywhere? I look forward to doing as much with this panel as possible.

Thanks.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

My M1G is being installed Tuesday.

Make sure you get the installer (main programming) code if they change it from defaults.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Here's another alternative on the piezo sirens