New to HA, ordered a Raspberry Pi and need to pick lighting control protocol

[rogersmj]

I've dabbled with the idea of home automation for...well, ever since I saw crew members giving voice commands to turn on the lights in Star Trek.
 
I've done bits of research over the years but never decided it was time to dive in, until now. I've decided I want a great deal of custom control over my system, but not have to keep a PC running all the time (especially since we're an all-Mac household), so I ordered a Raspberry Pi (model B, with 512MB of RAM) in anticipation of using it with MisterHouse or something similar via a USB powerline modem/controller. I have a computer science background, so no issues with getting into code if the end result is a brain-dead simple experience day-to-day.
 
Now I'm at the part I always get hung up on: which protocol for the lighting control?
 
Requirements:

• High reliability. I will not tolerate frequent missed commands, or questions from the wife about why the lights aren't turning on properly.
• Nice looking and nice feeling/sounding switches. Some of them out there are just really ugly, or sound/feel cheap when you tap them.
• Ideally the manufacturer would also offer switches that support dimming CFLs or LEDs.

Cost is a consideration, and I don't want to spend $2k just to get started, but I'm willing to spend more for higher quality hardware and step into this gradually.
 
I'm leaning toward UPB, because it seems highly reliable and there are a variety of good-looking switches available. I don't like Insteon because their switches are almost as expensive, but look cheap to me (especially the keypads), and sound cheap based on the unit I already ordered when I was still leaning that way.
 
So, key questions that I'd appreciate some input on from all of you, who probably have much more experience at this than I:

1. Does UPB sound like the right technology based on my requirements?
2. Can anyone recommend a particular brand of UPB switches? I've been reading a lot on the Simply Automated switches, they look good, have a lot of options, and the dimmers I would most often need can be had for ~$60 each. But I haven't found any that dim CFLs or LEDs.
3. Does anyone else use MisterHouse with UPB? Or any other Linux controller software with UPB? What has your experience been like?
4. Based on my limited understanding, I can mix and match protocols with the MisterHouse software and the right interfaces, correct? So I could use some X10 or Insteon door sensors, and, with an Insteon power line modem, could incorporate their inputs into my home automation? For example, I want to be able to sense if the garage door is up, and if it is, send a command to close it when I set my house to a nighttime scene using a UPB scene keypad.

Any other input/recommendations is welcome. Thank you.

 

[JonW]

UPB is very reliable and easy to program for.  All the scene setup is stored in the switches and those all communicate directly with each other, so your interaction from a controller device is just limited to turning things on/off based on external events (sensors, times, etc.).  This will keep the wife happy as you won't need to rely on your external controller for normal operations.
 
All of the existing UPB devices (HAI, SAI, PCS) all work well with each other, so you can mix and match devices for specific needs.  For cost considerations and flexibility, the SAI switches are probably the best choice.  I would give the PCS switches an edge for a more solid feel, but there is nothing wrong with the HAI or SAI switch feel either.
 
For your garage, you can use a single SAI UPB I/O module to sense door status (input) and to activate a relay (output) to trigger the door.  I would try to avoid mixing protocols if at all possible.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

If you are keen on using the Raspberry-PI, you should get the one with the embedded Z-Wave stack board as I reviewed at this year's CES!

 

[dgage]

Read some of my posts about Lutron RadioRa 2 as I feel it hits your key points but it is a little more closed system and is more expensive.  Sort of like Apple, it works great as long as you like what they give you...and oh yeah, you'll pay a little more for it.  But some consider Apple to be a good value...but that is a different story.  Anyway, I did quite a bit of research and looked at UPB and Zwave for switches.  The switch quality and options was what drove me to RadioRa 2, especially something like the hybrid keypad that could control a local load as well as have 5 or 6 buttons to control other items.  In researching other hybrid keypad options, the local load always had to be at the top, which didn't fit my needs.  I had individual switches on 3 sides of my kitchen and I bought 3 hybrid keypads and with the flexibility to put the local load on any button, I was able to have the ordering of the buttons on the hybrid keypads to be the exact same in each location.  I didn't find an option like that for UPB or Zwave.  And if you throw in the reliability of RadioRa 2 compared to UPB or Zwave, it is much better although some have reported rock solid UPB implementations, less so with Zwave. 
 
I've had my RadioRa 2 system installed for about a month now and it has been rock solid.  I just bought CQC and so I'm learning/playing with some lighting control now through software and I'm starting to feel I gave up some flexibility in control in exchange for higher reliability. (NOTE: I think it is premature to really know if there is a loss in flexibility as I haven't scratched the surface yet of CQC or RadioRa2.) An example is that if you hit a switch such as a UPB switch, the controller could possibly (???) intercept the button press and you might be able to put some more logic in before the light actually turns on.  With RadioRa 2, the light will turn on according to the limited programming setup in Lutron's software.  I am just now getting into this so I don't think it will be a problem and I'm sure there will always be ways to work around these things as UPB or Zwave would have their own set of issues to work around.  I'm happy with my RadioRa 2 system so far and that is what matters.  And even more so, my wife loves it so far.  The kitchen setup, the occupancy sensor in the garage, the pico controls next to the bed for bed/bath lights.  Small implementation so far but the wife really likes it and so do I.
 
David

 

[az1324]

Try ZBPServer.

 

[Dean Roddey]

I'm not a RA2 expert, but as I understand it there are dimmers and there are keypad buttons. Dimmers are just for local control of the load they control. They don't report presses to the automation system, though of course you can control the dimmer level via the automation system. Keypad buttons are purely for user programmable functionality, and they can either at the Lutron or CQC level be set up to do user logic, since they will report their press state to the automaton system (if you want them to.) And you can combine the two of course.

 

[dgage]

Well, if you telnet into the RadioRa 2 Main Repeater, you can see all of the buttons as they are pressed and released, whether that is a switch, dimmer, keypad button, or remote Pico button.

The commands over the RadioRa 2 internal network (how the RadioRa 2 network talks) looks something like this (I know you know this Dean).
#DEVICE,2,4,3
Where 2 is the Device ID, 4 is the Component ID (button on keypad), and 3 is the action, which in this case is a button press.

So for a local load - switch, dimmer, or local control hybrid keypad; you are correct in that it will control the local load and send out the key press and key release events. Now if we were to have the lights go up over 2 or 3 seconds, we might be able to intercept the actual light going on but I will have to test this.

Now for a hybrid keypad (buttons not assigned to local load) and for the Pico ($20ish) remotes, now that you explain it, we can set those up completely for CQC to control and it would give me some of the control that I want. I just setup a Pico to control the bedroom light by telling the RadioRa 2 system what to do when I press a button. However, if I didnt setup actions for the remote but just set it up with RadioRa 2, I could use CQC to react differently if my wife hits the on button after midnight; instead of turning on the bedroom light, I could turn on the bathroom light on low so she can see to go to the bathroom. And since she gets up before I do to get the kids off to school, after 6am the key press would turn on the bathroom light on medium and the hall light. Good stuff.

Also thinking of some cool potential uses for the occupancy sensors now.

Thanks Dean. Seems like I've got a lot of playing to do with RadioRa 2 and CQC.

David

 

[nathank]

If you are keen on using the Raspberry-PI, you should get the one with the embedded Z-Wave stack board as I reviewed at this year's CES!

 
THIS is awesome!  Any idea if they will be selling the z-wave add on separately?  It looks as thought it just slides on a couple GPIO pins?  I already have a few pis, so that would be a great addition.
 
EDIT: Found the info.  $69 is for just the daughter card.
http://www.zwaveproducts.com/Zwave-Controllers/All-In-One-Zwave-Gateways/Z-Wave-Razberry-Pi-GPIO-Daughter-Card.html

 

[rogersmj]

If you are keen on using the Raspberry-PI, you should get the one with the embedded Z-Wave stack board as I reviewed at this year's CES!

 
Cool. Are there any capabilities that would give me over the Raspberry Pi + UPB USB powerline interface? From what I can tell, MisterHouse gives me a way to program against the UPB devices using the interface module; then I can develop a web UI using MisterHouse commands (because their default web interface sucks).

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Basically you create your own app via java script.

 

[linuxha]

Cool. Are there any capabilities that would give me over the Raspberry Pi + UPB USB powerline interface? From what I can tell, MisterHouse gives me a way to program against the UPB devices using the interface module; then I can develop a web UI using MisterHouse commands (because their default web interface sucks).

 
There interface sucks? Okay, it does. ;-) I've been fooling around with the floorplan interface. It still needs a lot of work (AJAX, JSON, JS, & SVG to provide better information sharing). I'm a bit busy now with work.
 
The rest of MH works well though and you can share with other programs too. I also have a Vera (needs to reboot often) and would love to replace it with this board.

 

[rogersmj]

There interface sucks? Okay, it does. ;-) I've been fooling around with the floorplan interface. It still needs a lot of work (AJAX, JSON, JS, & SVG to provide better information sharing). I'm a bit busy now with work.
 
The rest of MH works well though and you can share with other programs too. I also have a Vera (needs to reboot often) and would love to replace it with this board.

 
Sorry, don't take it personally, I'm a UX guy by trade so that's what I look at But I don't think the aim of MisterHouse has to be to provide a great user interface necessarily; it's providing a great foundation for automation and control so that other people can build whatever interface suits them. MisterHouse is awesome.
 
Once I really get in there and start tinkering with a UI, my intent is to see if I can contribute something configurable and scalable that others could use.

 

[linuxha]

Sorry, don't take it personally, I'm a UX guy by trade so that's what I look at But I don't think the aim of MisterHouse has to be to provide a great user interface necessarily; it's providing a great foundation for automation and control so that other people can build whatever interface suits them. MisterHouse is awesome.
 
Once I really get in there and start tinkering with a UI, my intent is to see if I can contribute something configurable and scalable that others could use.

 
Too late. ;-) If I had my way I'd create a very simple user interface:
 
$ _
 
;-)
 
I'm not good with UI and you are correct. MH's user interface hasn't been a great interface. It's powerful backend (X10, Insteon, Z-Wave, UPB and lots of other things all on the same system - if you want). Sadly many other systems are not much better. I do like the floor plan idea. I work with Networks and it's always a map (like a floor plan) and this you click the Icons they bring you to a page with lots of information. But that's monitoring. This is monitoring and control. If you click on the icon, you'd expect a change in the control. With modern browsers the hover should bring up the information (and possibly further control). I still need a lot to do with color, icons, information presentation, widget handling and server vs. client code. Throw in Browser vs touch tablet and life gets even more interesting. Also the main MH code does need to be rewritten. Too much was directly added to the main loop.
 
And now back to the topic. I've just ordered a daughter board. I'll set it up and see how it works. I may be able to dump the older Vera (another lousy interface, MH is better in my opinion. On the backend, MH is much better).

 

[ano]

UPB is the only technology I know with switches designed specifically to dim LEDs and CFL.  Or I should say switch, The HAI  35A00-1CFL UPB LED/CFL is the only switch of its type I know. It runs about $80.

 

[dgage]

RadioRa 2 also has switches specially designed for the lower wattage pull of LEDS but I belive most of them require a neutral wire.  Actually, I think most of the dimmers that work best with LEDs will require a neutral wire so make sure your location has a neutral if needed before you purchase. 
 
And I'm not trying to push RadioRa 2 as I'm just a DIYer.  To each their own on what works best for them.  Just posting for information completeness.
 
David