Omni iie without phone line

[dhull3]

Can the omni iie be used without the phone line? And without the uplink? As in over the Internet? I have an uplink and the central station can see it but it will it call out. I get a communication error. Thanks for any advise.

 

[cobra]

I guess the question is what do you want it to do.  The Omni can be used standalone to control lights, it could be used as an alarm only panel with sensors and local sounder, but no monitoring.
 
Can you give a little more detail?  You can certainly disable it's calling out on alarms.
 
It sounds like maybe you want it to be monitored but only over internet?

 

[ano]

The Omni only supports one method of monitoring, phone line.  Now almost every monitoring company today offers Internet VOIP adapters so the alarm can be monitored over the Internet, but these devices still communicate to the alarm panel via a phone line. If you don't want any type of monitoring, you can disable the phone line so it doesn't report a "phoneline dead" error. Even with Internet monitoring its not good to disable this, because it verifies that the VOIP adapter is connected and running.

 

[Del91574]

 Even with Internet monitoring its not good to disable this, because it verifies that the VOIP adapter is connected and running.

This will get you into trouble quickly. You don't want to fall under the false confidence that the panel is supervising the IP connection via these means.
 
Almost every ATA I've worked with will still push out voltage whether or not there's a viable IP connection or not. Plenty of class action and lawsuits out there with alarm providers doing just this. The cell or TCP backup communicators typically push out voltage when connected to a network under the same circumstances, as they were/are designed to keep panels that supervise the phone line happy. Unless you're running a unit with a heartbeat and it's supervised by the CS themselves, the panel will be fat and happy whether or not there's a viable connection via the 3rd party adapter.
 
There was a major lawsuit involving ADT with major breech of contract and the VOIP connection and a dialer capture cell unit as a backup to the VOIP were one of the key points that were brought up in the forensic testimony. There are trade articles out there with photographs of the alarm installation pointing out the issues. I can't seem to find via the gods of google at the moment.
 
Further reading: https://www.kirschenbaumesq.com/article/adt-security-services-inc-plaintiff-counterclaim-defendant-v-vicki-seliger-swenson-as-personal-representative-of-the-estate-of-teri-lynn-lee-and-as-trustee-for-the-next-of-kin-of-teri-lynn-lee-decedent-tml-tbl-tjl-and-tml-minors-t

 

[ano]

This will get you into trouble quickly. You don't want to fall under the false confidence that the panel is supervising the IP connection via these means.
 
Almost every ATA I've worked with will still push out voltage whether or not there's a viable IP connection or not. Plenty of class action and lawsuits out there with alarm providers doing just this. The cell or TCP backup communicators typically push out voltage when connected to a network under the same circumstances, as they were/are designed to keep panels that supervise the phone line happy. Unless you're running a unit with a heartbeat and it's supervised by the CS themselves, the panel will be fat and happy whether or not there's a viable connection via the 3rd party adapter.
 
There was a major lawsuit involving ADT with major breech of contract and the VOIP connection and a dialer capture cell unit as a backup to the VOIP were one of the key points that were brought up in the forensic testimony. There are trade articles out there with photographs of the alarm installation pointing out the issues. I can't seem to find via the gods of google at the moment.
 
Further reading: https://www.kirschenbaumesq.com/article/adt-security-services-inc-plaintiff-counterclaim-defendant-v-vicki-seliger-swenson-as-personal-representative-of-the-estate-of-teri-lynn-lee-and-as-trustee-for-the-next-of-kin-of-teri-lynn-lee-decedent-tml-tbl-tjl-and-tml-minors-t

Nobody is making any claims that the IP adapter verifies the full path to the CS constantly, but it DOES verify the wire from the panel to the IP adapter.  The panel DOES verify that it can speak to the CS when it is armed or disarmed and will alert if it can't after 5 or 10 minutes.  Next Alarm can also send an email when the panel is armed or disarmed or not armed or disarmed at a certain time. 
 
Maybe someday when i have some free time, I'll write a script for my email server to match up the arms and disarms from Next Alarm with those from my Omni and if it receives one without the other it will alert me by email, which of course assumes email isn't down.

 

[Del91574]

Nobody is making any claims that the IP adapter verifies the full path to the CS constantly, but it DOES verify the wire from the panel to the IP adapter.  The panel DOES verify that it can speak to the CS when it is armed or disarmed and will alert if it can't after 5 or 10 minutes.  Next Alarm can also send an email when the panel is armed or disarmed or not armed or disarmed at a certain time. 
 
Maybe someday when i have some free time, I'll write a script for my email server to match up the arms and disarms from Next Alarm with those from my Omni and if it receives one without the other it will alert me by email, which of course assumes email isn't down.

Ano,
 
This is where doing this as a trade and being a enthusiast/tinkerer come into play. I build and service CS' like NA for public and private entities and also construct and program the automation portion that directs signals to the operators and dispatchers. I'm also the guy that's telling techs in the field how to program their panels, on top of 15 years prior to my current position, installing and programming the panels themselves to go to CS' for professional monitoring.
 
Scripts or any other batch file you want to attempt to run isn't going to change how the system works or prove anything in this case.
 
You can say as you want, but try this: Disconnect the cable from the ISP to your modem leaving the ATA intact and post your results.
 
The only item your panel is squawking about is O/C reports which are enabled in your panel as a reporting option on your system. The time you're reporting as approximately 5 minutes would be when the panel is reporting a fail to communicate (FTC) not any form of supervision via the panel. The panel doesn't verify it can speak to the CS....it keeps dialing blindly until it reaches it's maximum dial attempts, which can be, in the case of some panels, up to 8 tries per programmed phone number, including a dial and pause between each attempt.....if you're reporting 5 minutes, that's shocking it's that fast before a FTC is reported by the panel. You arm the panel, it goes OH to send a C report to the CS, up to the maximum dial attempts. The CS doesn't care if your system is armed or disarmed. They're not looking for the O/C report at a defined window.
 
Also, don't forget, many CS' charge extra for O/C reporting as it increases the traffic on their line card and hunt groups which are covered under UL (don't even get started on asking if NA is UL listed and provides UL listed CS monitoring.....that's another lively discussion). Also, it's doubtful that you've provided NA an O/C schedule or timing, where there's a LTC or ETO reporting or missed windows. I've yet to see any residential application use O/C reporting as it's designed. NA doesn't care if your panel is armed or disarmed. If there's no path, they're not going to get the O/C report nor are they getting the FTC report you're deeming as supervision. If they receive an Open report without a previous Closed report...they're not going to even blink an eye. They also aren't going to care if they receive a Closed report at all. The only time they're going to know anything is when they don't receive a test timer, assuming that's programmed for anywhere from monthly, to daily......if it's programmed at all (minimum UL/NFPA is required monthly test timer if fire is monitored)
 
In the case of the panel itself, leaving on phone line detection is a bad idea because it supervises nothing other than the panel is physically connected to the ATA, not whether or not there's actual service. You're not gaining anything, and if you have a secondary path, the panel will NEVER switch to it as long as the ATA has power, as it will provide the voltage to the panel's phone line and prevent the communications device from ever switching off the VOIP line. It's a false sense of security which really doesn't mean anything but can or will cause issues if there's other forms of communication attached to the panels.
 
The long and short takeaway is if you're using VOIP for monitoring, don't use a cell backup. Use the cell as the primary, otherwise go with an appropriate TCP/IP communicator connected to the host panel. Yes, in the case of the HAI, you're going to lose the ability to dial into the panel.....but it's better to be able to get the signal out and get help over convenience for phone control.
 
Let me know if you want to know more about how your panel, the CS and the reporting methods work. I could go on about NA, but that's another discussion.