OnQ ALC via ELK or CQC?

[felixrosbergen]

Hi All,

I'm set on using ALC for the lighting on my house, but am on the fence on how to control it.

I will have CQC and Elk anyway so either one woudl work for me.

Since the ALC switches work even without a controller I'm not so concerned with the stability of the control system.

Beelzerob seems to have a good working driver for CQC now.

Has anybody controlled ALC with an ELK? How does that work? How does the feature set compare to the CQC driver?

In the end i will want the lighting to respond to sensors and other inputs which are mostly contained in the ELK.

ALC makes a special interface module to interface with the ELK, but it's also possible to use their normal controller with serial board and then use the elk serial expander. If i go that way i guess i can be the guinea pig if nobody else had yet. Of the WAF will suffer...hahaha

 

[AceCannon]

I am doing my structured wiring now and have the exact same hardware plan.

The CQC driver looks to me to have more functionality. But, the Elk has no PC to reply on, so theoretically would be more bullet-proof. I am not convinced it will make a huge difference either way.

So, I am still on the fence, as well. How close are you to implementation?

 

[felixrosbergen]

Hi Ace,

I'm closing on the house in 3 weeks or so.

2 weeks after i move in i'm going on a 2 week business trip and the wife want the alarms to be ready then. So my initial focus will be to get the Elk in and going. I'm also having speaker put in so to keep WAF high I'll probably tackly Nuvo next. After that it's either T-stats or lighting.

I'm taking the week after we close off to get the Elk in and do as much other stuff as i can.

In all honesty i doubt i'll be messing with ALC untill early 2009, although i may just get the controller and a few switches to play with. If i get too frustrated with one system (e.g. Elk) i can at least throw myself at something else for a bit.

My tentative plan is to get the ALC controller and the serial interface. With the serial interace you can then hook to a PC runnign CQC or to the Elk via the Elk serial expander.

ALC makes a special interface that puts the serial/elk interface into 1 board which is a bit cheaper than getting the normal ALC serial interface AND the serail to ELK board, but at least at least with the extra step i can switch between the 2 options to test. The end functionality with the Elk should be the same either way.

I think i'm leaning towards using CQC. I've been reading about beelzerobs driver at CQC forums and it sounds really nice. Through CQC there configuration/rules capability is probably a bit more advanced than through the Elk (although i've worked with neither so cannot be positive).

Keep us posted on your progress.

The other item i was looking into is how to hook up all the ALC low voltage wiring. Tony from setnet has been promoting the wiring hub and advanced wiring hub, but they seem mostly meant to go into a gangbox and not into a panel. Since all my ALC wiring will be homerun i don't see the purpose of them. The dip switches might be nice for troubleshooting, but once setup this thing should be plenty stable so why pay extra for the easy of troubleshooting.

I am looking at this unit http://www.setnetpro.com/product.asp?3=1224 thinking it should do the same but fits in a panel nicely.

For now my potential hardware shopping list (exlcuding the actual switches) is:
- 364644-01 as the lighting controller (has 1 branch circuit)
- 364698-01 for serial controller - hook to lighting controller via flat cable and to serial via RJ45 (use a RJ45 <> DB9 converter)
- 364645-01 to terminate the cat5 from switches in the panel and connect auxes to dimmers/relays
- 364726-01 if i need more than 1 branch circuit (31 devices per circuit)

It looks like the 364726-01 has 'Expansion In' and 'Expansion Out' ports, the main lighting interface has 1 expansion port. It thus seems that when you expand you disconnect the serial module from the lighting interface module and put the expansion module in between.

Thats my plan, hopefully somebody can beat me to it and tell me if it works.

I have a question into Tony on the suitability of the 364645-01 but have not gotten a response. Basically it's not clear to me how i'm going to terminate the 3 auxes and 1 dimmer related to a 5 way switch onto these hubs/modules.

Whats you dates and size of the installation? I'm probably looking at about 10 switches for the first stages and then expand from there as WAF and budget allows.

 

[sic0048]

If you are only looking at CQC to control the ALC lighting, then I think I would just go with the ELK. But having CQC opens up so many other possibilities. If you think you will want to control other aspects of your house, then at least try out the CQC system. The good news is that you can always add it later.

CQC will definitely allow you more "programing" options and power. I run CQC and although I don't run ELK, I know people are concerned about running out of memory. It's impossible to run out of memory with CQC.

Also, considering that you can build an extremely low power dedicated machine to run CQC on, I wouldn't be too concerned about stability. I actually have a more powerful system that I also use as a SageTV DVR (since it also needs to be on 24/7) and I have never had a major systems failure that knocked the server off line. I've had times that I have had to reboot the server due to messing around with Sage and adding tuners, etc. But never an unexpected failure. I've been running CQC for over a year now too. So I would call my system pretty stable, and I'm messing with it regularly. If you built a dedicated CQC device, it would be even more bullet proof.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Hi sic..

I am plannign to use CQC regardless ands have jsut built a new box for running CQC/sage and other stuff. Too bad the new box is sucking 80watts and i can't seem to get it down....but thats another thread.....

Although i'm not in need to purchase yet i've decided to go with CQC and get the ELK M1XSP anyway....so i can always try both and report to the troops how things work...

It seems like there was much discussion about ALC lighting a few months ago and now there's several people on the brink of jumping in deep...would be nice to jump in all together so we can help each other out.

 

[AceCannon]

I am pulling all my wiring back to the central closet. I will make connections for aux switches there. . My plan is to use 66 blocks to connect all the conductors together for the aux switches.

Some of my switch locations are (for instance) 3gang, and I have decided to not homerun all of their communication leads. I will just give them seperate ID's and use two conductors (total) for those 3 switches.

It isn't clear to me what the differene is between the branch hub, enahnced branch hub, and the distribution module. (other than about $50.00). Can't I connect 31 devices to any of these as long as they have different addresses? Can I connect a branch of 3 devices to one of the connection points of a hub / distro module and expect that to simply add 3 to the possible total of 31 devices per branch??

You mentioned you are going to do the Elk first, then the Nuvo (interesting - my plan is also for Nuvo (GrandConcerto)). I too am concerned about the WAF, so I am thinking for SURE I have got to get all the aux switches connected, so the ALC subsystem is going to likely be the first item on the list (ahead of the Nuvo)

 

[AceCannon]

Another big concern of mine is the cost of the ALC switches. It looks like Setnet lowered their prices slightly, but still it will cost a lot to deploy the system. Of course, after running cat5e all over the damned house, I can come back and retrofit regular switches to ALC as the budget allows.

Setnet appears to be the best source for this hardware. Unless anyone has better info?

 

[beelzerob]

Another big concern of mine is the cost of the ALC switches. It looks like Setnet lowered their prices slightly, but still it will cost a lot to deploy the system. Of course, after running cat5e all over the damned house, I can come back and retrofit regular switches to ALC as the budget allows.

That was one of the big reasons I went with ALC also. Allows me to have the lighting option wired in, but actually implement it as funds allow, which is what we're doing right now...I finally got approved for our initial purchase of switches. And, when we go to move in 20 years, if nothing better in lighting technology comes along...I just pop the old switches back in before the sale and take the ALC ones.. *snicker*

 

[sic0048]

ALC switches are not cheap (but check out Setnet's clearance bin. They have dimmer and appliance switches for about $75 each right now). But it is in line with the more expensive wireless options. Insteon and Intermatic are cheaper (at about $50/switch), but ALC is cheap compared to the other hardwired options.

So I'd say that ALC is a middle of the road cost when compared to all options, but one of the cheapest hardwired options out there.

 

[beelzerob]

ALC switches are not cheap (but check out Setnet's clearance bin. They have dimmer and appliance switches for about $75 each right now).

Ya, the sale at Setnet was what finally allowed me to get funding for an initial install of switches. It covers all the most important lights.