Our home automation project in India

tejas13

New Member
Hello All, this is a great resourceful forum for any newbie in home automation. I have very basic knowledge about home automation. 
 
Currently we are building a 6000 sqft home including a dedicated home theatre, multi room audio, and with a pool/backyard. I m not sure how to go about with home automation. I m getting ridiculous offers from local integrators (example $32000 for lutron lighting control). Please note that home automation is not a common thing here, it is very rare to see someone doing home automation and hence the local dealers increase the price by several folds.
 
If there are no restrictions with the home automation spend, can you guys suggest me the home automation products? Objective is to have the entire home automated including home theatre, pool fountains etc. But need a reliable & robust one. 
 
1) Wired or Wireless (Inclined toward Wired as many has suggested in this forum)
2) Lighting Control 
3) Multi Room Audio (Inclined towards Wired, will Nuvo be good? Received quote for Systemline/Q acoustics for about $28000 for 7 zones!
4) Home Automation Controller 
5) Not sure what else is required
 
I would be able to source the automation products from Middle East or US, so I can consider pretty much every product available in the market. My plan is to buy products from abroad and have it installed through a integrator locally, so that I would pay right price for the entire home automation project
 
Thanks in advance for any inputs
 
Home automation is currently expensive, especially if you want high quality and reliable performance. Wired is always more reliable and less expensive than the equivalent wireless, but it requires higher up-front investment and advanced planning. There is also no "standard" for home automation, you can hire a pro that will sell you his preferred version of an automated home, or you can design your own. This board offers great resources that can help you in your decisions, check out http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/6700-guide-wiring-your-new-house-101 for ideas on what can be automated. In India you'll have local constraints that may limit the number of available products, however there are many choices that will still be applicable. Lighting will be your first challenge, the Lutron price you've been quoted is not far from the norm, considering the size of your home. You can try a less expensive DIY friendly technology, but be prepared to deal with reliability issues. You can also buy the hardware and install it yourself to cut the cost. The audio price will depend on the equipment quality and can also run high. For a background audio consider a multi-zone controller like Russound, it can also be easily integrated with HA controllers. If you plan on home theater, the price can be infinite depending on your requirements. Once you choose your lighting and audio technologies, you can look into a compatible controller. Alternatively, you can choose a controller first and get the equipment it support's, which basically means you choose a specific vendor. As an example, take a look at HAI/Leviton products, they offer a controller and many other components that can be easily integrated. I am not sure if it will be the best choice for your location, but it gives a comprehensive picture of what is involved in home automation install.
 
Where in India? I was born there (came here when I was 4), visited back in December.
 
I ask as my concern would be that at least in my relatives locations, heat and dust are major issues.  Given that you're building and that labor is stupidly cheap in India, I would go towards fully wired products wherever possible. The only thing worse than paying to do an HA install is paying several times to replace failing products, and having subpar performance on the way.
 
For lighting, definitely pick a product thats hardwired. 
 
Wire everything to a single location, then put in a robust air filter to both keep dust & heat to a minimum. 
 
BTW, I think you'll also have issues with inbound duty. Thats also adding to your costs. Might be cheaper for you to fly to the US with 1-2 others, buy the stuff, fly back :-)
 
Thank you both for the suggestions. 
We are based in Bangalore. Now pretty much all the solutions are available here, but only thing is they import it with high import duty and also add huge mark up on the products. Also the local vendors are not that advanced.
 
I m not going to DIY. I will be hiring a vendor to do all the installation & set-up.
 
The only thing I m clear at this moment, is Lutron wired lighting & Nuvo Hi-Fi multi room audio. Hope these choices are good.
 
Can you guys give me a suggestion what would be ideal spend for a high end home automation for home of 6000 sqft? I know that it might be different in India, but if I know a figure then it would have a benchmark
 
Meanwhile one of the technology that interested to me recently is the Enocean. I m also exploring if it will make sense. 
 
Thanks in advance
 
I don't think its possible to come up with a # as its highly variable on what your definition of home automation is, how many devices you're going to have. You just mentioned lighting & audio, but in reality home automation is far far more than that. Nowadays everyone does lighting & audio. Just multiply the cost of Lutron devices * # of devices, add in a few hundred for the controller. NuVo is perfect for that # of zones. Speakers could be anywhere from $100-$1000/room based on what you want. (MUCH more for the home theater rooms but you only mentioned audio).
 
For labor, I would think Rs 500/hour or Rs4K/day would be fine. Figure each hardwired run is perhaps an hour, and you've got your wiring #.
 
For programming, just lighting & audio is on the order of days, not weeks. Even at 5 days of $40/hour you're at 1600*50 rupees to dollar.
 
But the biggest issue isn't in the specifics above, its in picking a system that they know since you won't DIY it. They may not know how to use NuVo so they'll have to learn it.
 
In the end, you're going to pay either in time (DIY) or in hiring someone. Bangalore has a lot of $$ flowing into it, plus home automation isn't big so its seen as a high end luxury which means they charge more.
 
BTW, from [URL="http://www.charmedquark.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10918"]http://www.charmedquark.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10918]this post[/url], here's what Home Automation could be. And in the US with no import duty, you could be at $100K easily for a 6K SqFt house.
 
Got asked by someone about prewiring as he literally just poured the foundation for his new house, dug up this from an ancient thread that I wrote 4 years ago. How much of this would you say no longer applies? Any new stuff that needs wiring that I missed?
 
Will cross-post on CT as well.
 
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BTW, all this is IN ADDITION to running at least 1 empty 2" conduit from your wiring closet to each other primary location for thhe stuff you forget.
 
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Security & Safety:
1) Occupancy: Motion sensors for every room, run 18/4 for that. You can integrate a home automation system in here to do occupancy-based rules about what to turn on/off/etc.
 
2) Security: Siren/CO/Smoke/Heat/Glassbreak sensors, most of them use 18/4, heat may use 22/2. For smoke/heat, you'll need to use fire-rated 18/4, typically red jacket.
 
3) Driveway and or/fence gates for open/close status: 22/2 or CAT5. I have young kids, plus live in Oakland, so it's nice to know and have the system be able to announce that someone has just opened up the driveway gate.
 
4) Gate phone/gate opener. A couple direct burial cat5 if there is a gate in drive way.
 
5) Safety/Elk:Water Sensors near hot water heater or other flood-prone locations. CAT5 I think.
 
6) Security Keypad, prox sensors, pin readers. CAT5. Put 1 at each point of entry/exit, plus 1 in each bedroom to serve as a 'panic button'.
 
7) Usage: Door sensors for every closet door in case you want to do auto-lighting-on, run 22/2 (or CAT5 to a central location) for that. Sounds dumb, but my wife really likes not having to manually turn her closet light on/off, and gets really pissy when the cheap-ass zWave switch I got doesn't work.
 
8) Window sensors: 22/2, or if you have multiple together you could do CAT5 to the middle one and 22/2 to each window.
 
9) HA Speakers: Due to it being irritating to have audio pause to hear HA announcements/etc, I personally chose to mount a 2nd set of speakers just for HA (doorbell/phone/HA announcements/intruder alerts), and got the single-gang Elk $7 speakers. I ran CAT5 to the Elk, and put each of them on a relay so I can turn each of them on/off. Don't forget outside speakers too, such as patio, driveway, and front door. As mentioned in the gate bullet above, when the gate is opened, my system turns on the outside speaker and plays my gruff voice recording saying "driveway gate opened, video camera recording". That way if it's a bad guy, he knows that the house is watching.
 
10) CCTV. Either 18/2(power) + 1RG6(signal) or 1 CAT5 (i think you can do power & signal over one)
 
11) door access control. 18/2 (maybe 22/2)
 
12) Swimming pool alert sensor, 18/2. Also a conduit, or more wire if you want LED lighting, filter control, temperature monitoring and intrusion monitoring.
 
Home Automation
13) Doorbell: If you get an Elk panel, you could use CAT5 for the doorbell and have an Elk-based doorbell rather than a generic chime. Plus that way you'd be setup in the future to automatically pop up a frontdoor camera on doorbell ring, and not rely on the doorbell detector. My wife *really* likes walking by the kitchen touchscreen before the door to see who it is.
 
14) HVAC: 2 CAT5 to your thermo (one for integration with PC or Elk, one in case you want remote thermos)
 
15) Irrigation: 1 CAT5 to the controller
 
16) Temperature monitoring: 1 22/4 or CAT5 to any room where you want to mount a temp sensor to get temps in each room. I vote putting one in the attic, basement, each bedroom, family room, & living room. Unless you have some other temp source (ie, Elk security system keypad has a built-in temp sensor, or obviously a thermostat).
 
Audio/Video
17) DirecTV/Digital Cable: The new DirecTV antennas use 4 RG6 per concurrent tuner you want. Digital cable needs 1 RG6 from outside to the box. (NOTE THIS IS *not* VIDEO DISTRIBUTION, Just capture).
 
18) Video distribution. 1 CAT5 can handle component distro (if you use baluns), some products require 2 CAT5, or 3RG6 (without baluns). I'd recommend baluns as you can stick with just running CAT5. I believe 2 CAT5 can also handle HDMI distribution. Plus, if you run back to a central wiring closet, you can just connect the cat5 patch panel to your network if you want a local SageTV HD-200 box.  HDMI is a PITA to distribute so just use local sources there.
 
19) Audio distribution. 1 CAT5 per every 2 directions/devices. I.E., if you have a local source, you can use a cat5 to send it back to your central controller. 1cat5 can handle two pairs, so you can either have 2 local sources, or 1 local source and 1 outbound from an unpowered zone on your WHA controller to send to a local stereo.
 
20) Plasma or projector control. 18/2 & CAT5 to any location you may want a projector mounted, CAT5 to your plasma for control.
 
21) Local device control. (ie, local receiver control via serial) - 1 CAT5 per device. You'll need more of these than you think.
 
22) Russound/NuVo Keypads. Route speaker wiring via this location and also run CAT5.
 
23) In-Wall speakers. Run 16/4 speaker wire to EVERY room, including bathrooms. You may think its nutty now (as my wife did), but once everything else is done and you have the spare whole-house-amp connections, real Whole-Home-Audio will be freaky deaky cool (as my wife now thinks).
 
24) Subwoofer. a 14/2 as an addition to Subwoofer connection, may be another 22/2 for IR if you intend to use Velodyn DLS-R Sub
 
25) External speakers. Direct burial 14/4 Rock speakers & in ground Sub
 
26) IR receivers. Run 1 CAT5 to any location you want an IR receiver. I ran one to 3 different rooms where I wanted an in-room IR eye, not an RF retransmitter.
 
27) Dedicated CCTV Distro: Additional RG6 or RG59 and 22/4 (to control) from CCTV DVR enclosure to TV locations where you wish to view activities.
 
28) HDTV Antenna: 1 RG6 for external antenna on roof
 
29) XM: 1 RG6 for XM signal cable to an external antenna
 
General
30) Network & Telephones. Both drops for rooms plus wireless access points in strategic locations. Yeah, I know, not HA related, but may as well list all random things that could need wiring together so you don't forget. Run at least 2, so you can have both network & telephone wherever you want.
 
31) Touchscreens. 18/2 & 2 CAT5 (should only need 1, but if you get a touchscreen only you'll need one for video, one for serial touchscreen control). You could merge this with above if you think you'll start with keypads and move on to TS's.
 
32) Water control valve.
 
33) hardwired lighting control. cat5e to every light switch, Lutron HomeWorks (currently) requires 2 pair conductor (18/2 + 18-22/2 STP, Class 2) to the switch
 
34) ceiling & bathroom fan control.
 
35) LAN to kitchen island/refrigerator/freezer/etc.
 
36) shade/curtain/shutter control and power. 18/2 & cat5.
 
37) skylights. 18/2 & CAT5
 
38) Run power to some telephone jacks (e.g. kitchen), so the phone wall wart isn't located 5 feet away.
 
39) Cell phone repeater antenna.
 
40) microphone wiring in case voice-recognition ever actually works. I believe 3conductor wire is needed, so a 22/4 would suffice. Maybe a CAT5e, no idea.
 
BTW i use a NuVo Concerto for 13 zones (amps for 2 of them as i want more power than the NuVo sends). I personally do lighting, irrigation, security, re-use security motion & door sensors for automation, video, HVAC, Text-to-speech, bunch of other stuff, controlled both via touchscreens and phones/Nexus7/iPad. I DIY'ed it with used equipment. I think I spent ~$20K all-in, but I had THOUSANDS of hours in installation.  It took a few years as this is a hobby that I enjoy, but more than a few pro's have joked that my house is more tricked out than some of their $100K AMX or Crestron jobs.
 
Thanks IVB for your detailed replies. 
 
Ours is a high end home, however I don't think it is reasonable to spend $100k for automation given the fact that the savings in long term will not be even 25% of the spend. Will Z-wave make sense? I have received quotes under $10k just for home automation (without multi room audio & home theatre). Z-wave also makes sense as elders or kids can still use the regular switches to control. Is Z-wave reliable? Can one do a Z-wave automation and will it work atleast for 10 years without fine tuning or repairing?
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Wireless in bangalore is ill advised. Between the heat, humidity, and dust it won't be stable. And there is no way you're getting 10 years out of any HA technology.

I use zWave but if I were building new I'd go hardwired. My devices are starting to fail after 4 years but I also had first generation equipment.

If you stick with lighting and audio, and assuming 30 lights under control, it could be as cheap as a $15-$20K or so installed assuming you get cheaper labor. But you'll have to direct them. The reason these guys are charging you is that there's not enough volume to spread costs over, plus not a lot of competition.
 
Thanks IVB for all your inputs
You are right, the reliability of wifi is very bad here. It makes sense to go with complete hard wired system.  
 
I will update after few weeks what I m going to do. 
 
Thanks again
 
Personally take into account what the future might bring.  That said wire for everything and then wire some more and then put in chases for more.
 
Do you have Centralite dealers in your area? Their hard-wired lighting system Elegance should be less expensive than Lutron.
 
Yup here my brother in law works for Aditya Mittal (ArcelorMittal)
 
That said he mentioned a family wedding there in India that he and my sister went to one day.   
 
He told me that the house was totally updated with many automation features to his best knowledge (he is not a computer person though).
 
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