Planning for remodel...could use some help on specific issues

[jdk972003]

Long story short. Bought a 3200sq ft 1970's ranch style with basement. Remodeling as funds allow. I would like to wire the house for security, AV distribution, and WHA in the meantime. Huge open attic and huge unfinished basement. I am a DIY although networking wire is new to me. Rooms requiring connections
4 BR
1 MBath
Office/LR
Hearth
Kicthen
Garage
Pool

I count a total of 10 required runs cat6 (2 each). I have a HAI panel with Zwave and UPB.

House is wired for security. Contact sensors on all doors and windows (some wireless, most hardwired) and motion detectors in each room. I will replace most of the motion detectors and window sensors as needed after changing to the HAI panel. So security and UPB is pretty straight forward. The only question I have is as follows.

• I plan on centralizing my AV and security panel. Currently the panel is at the very end of one corner of the house where the cable and electrical come into the house. Whats the best approach to extending all the home runs to the new location? Those that cross the house I can literally take down and cut shorter, those on that end of the home do I splice the lines?

The next question I have concerns the AV distribution. I am thinking of using either Snap AV 8x8 matrix or a 8x8 HDbaseT Lite based matrix (either would have to have the mirrored outputs such as http://www.snapav.co...matrix-8x8.aspx). In either case its been recommended to me to run Cat6a in-wall SSTP for the runs. Plan on using the mirrored HDMI outs with some baluns to supply all 10 zones. To be thorough, I plan on running two Cat6 and one coax to each room where required.

• Does this sound correct?
• Am I missing anything?
• I plan on terminating the ends into a patch panel and into appropriate keystone jacks. To that end I need a cat6a SSTP patch panel 24 port. Any recommendations?

Some of these I might not terminate right away as the furniture layout in the rooms is not defined yet. But since three BR are about done including the Master and Master bath with the mirror TV, I need to get the system laid out and start working on those rooms at a minimum.

Oh WHA I am evaluating Hifi2, Nuvo, Lync2, and Sonos. The wife loves our sonos speakers and she dislikes volume knobs on the wall. I like intercom and an end result of a single interface for everything. Haiku seems the easy control choice so that points me to Nuvo or HiFi2. Any opinions?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Del91574]

Since the house isn't that big and most likely the house was retrofitted for the alarm, rather than making a huge junction, why not consider using the existing wiring as pull strings and pull all new homeruns from your intended location. You can consider salvaging the existing that can be pulled back, but that's a matter of choice. Yes, it may cost more initially vs. extending cabling, but in the long run it's a heck of a better way to proceed. Otherwise, I'd honestly recommend leaving the panel as is where it is.

For cabling to intended locations, I'd recommend pulling either a composite structured cable or 2 category and 2 RG6QS to each location. The industry appears to be moving back towards coax based on the bandwidths, with Category cabling not really being the method of choice, and with HDMI or Baluns, there's a few other issues to consider, but generally it will work until you push them hard.

 

[tmbrown97]

I can't think of any good reason to do STP - where did that recommendation come from? It'll cost you a lot more money and it isn't needed unless you're running in specific situations that are rarely encountered in residential or most commercial runs even.

Actually as I'm typing this - it occurs to me that SnapAV (who you linked above) and some others recommend STP when using their particular baluns... but for phone/network there's no point really, and the necessity on the AV ones is arguable.

 

[Del91574]

STP is unnecessary, and honestly, unless you have Cat6 rated everything, including patches, keystones, and all network equipment, it's not really worth it, and frankly, there has been plenty of discussion within the industry with Cat5E being more than capable.

I agree with the above post, it's exceptionally doubtful you will see a return on going from C5E to C6 based on speed vs cost, especially on such a small install, let alone see performance differences between the two cables.

 

[tmbrown97]

I've been doing this a long time, and I can safely predict that there's nothing we'll install in our homes in the next 10 years that will exceed Cat5e (as alluded to above). Gigabit runs just fine up to about 150ft using Cat5 (not even Cat5E). 10GB over Copper wants Cat6a over certain distances, but the cost per port is insane.

All that said, some of these extender baluns are asking for Cat6a STP because, quite frankly, they're asking too much of the cable... it probably won't work that well. Instead of changing the cable, I'd consider a different distribution method.

 

[jdk972003]

Yes, SnapAV recommends the Cat6a SSTP cable.

So 5e should be able to carry the signal?

I have considered other options such as component but that leaves a couple gaps in the plans for rooms that requires 7.1 / 5.1, 3D or at least the option to have it in the future.

 

[Del91574]

I think in this case, the vendor is trying to eliminate the possibility that a cable, pushed to it's limits, would still perform with their product, because after all, really, how many installs have a person come in with a pentascanner to shoot the cabling to certify it? Answer is not many.

The baluns are attempting to make up for cable construction differences, since the overall twist and a few other items come into play sending video down a category cable. You've got to take into consideration items such as timing and signal skew when using a UTP or STP cable for video...even the big buck baluns have issues, it all can be traced back to the cable construction (unequal twists, conductor length, etc)

At the moment, I'd agree, if a different distributon method or cabling can be had, I'd go that way first.

 

[jdk972003]

Ok, so if I want 1080 3d and 7.1 available in living room and theater and 3d and 5.1 in master... Just 1080 is fine elsewhere...

Could you guys suggest a solution or an approach?. Since I am not familiar with the avaialble market solutions I think you might be able to suggest a more reasonable approach.

 

[tmbrown97]

How far are you trying to go from the AV equipment to the TV's? That's the most important detail.

 

[jdk972003]

Well lets say the longest run is about 85 ft for a garage TV. Everything else is 50 or shorter and that includes the verticals. Complete open unfinished basement so easy to run cable.

 

[tmbrown97]

IIRC, specs say HDMI has no technical limitation, but due to cable quality, etc - the limitations come from the cables themselves; it should be pretty easy to get 50ft in a single well made cable. I doubt you're watching 3D 7.1 in the garage; you might even be able to convert to component for that run. That way you just need a quality matrix switcher without needing to worry about baluns/adapters.

 

[jdk972003]

So go with a standard 8x8 HDMI only switch and just run HDMI cables to the rooms correct? And if need be on the long run switch HDMI to component past the switch? I uess the only limitatio here is once I close things up i cannot repurpose HDMi cables like I could cat lines.

In this case I will need to know each runs actual length so I can order HDMI cables, but thats not so bad. So sounds like I need to run 1 HDMI, 2 Cat5e, and RG6QS to eac location (other than garage which will be a component run vs HDMI)

What do you recommend for IR distribution for control on those same runs? The cat switches I was looking at integrated the IR distribution, so now I need a system for that.

 

[Neurorad]

Huh, coax outperforming category cable? Didn't know that.

Good pickup on the retrofit alarm, DEL.

Perfect house for retrofitting, Bal. Nice find.

 

[Neurorad]

For the garage you would consider a powered HDMI over category cable adapter/extender (uses 1 or 2 category cables).

 

[tmbrown97]

Honestly to make sure you're covered as far as future-proofing goes, either run some CatX cable now too, and/or run smurf tube or conduit to those locations so you have unlimited flexibility.

You can do the IR over Cat5 or Coax - just have to pick the right IR solution; otherwise depending on control preferences, many people are using RF remotes or tablets/smartphones/touchscreens for control as well. Check out Xantech's line of IR distribution.