Powering Panasonic IP Cameras

[upstatemike]

I am installing some Panasonic IP cameras this week but I do not like the 12V power supply that comes with them. (Kind of a pain for outdoor cameras). I would like to just power them from an Elk P412 power supply but the thing is covered with warnings about only using the power supply provided. Anyboduy know of a good reason why the supplied power supply needs to be used? Do these require special filtering or regulation of some sort? Is anybody already using alternate power supplies with these cameras?

 

[TonyNo]

No direct experience with this unit, but... I think they are covering their butts, as most others do. Look at the power supply, measure the voltage, read the current output from the label. If it looks like a normal power supply, it likely is. If the voltage is exactly what is printed on it, it's regulated.

 

[CollinR]

Part#?

PS Panasonic seems to do this quite often, the SDIII has a label that says use a 20VA power supply only. Well all professional installations use a distributed power supply. Basically I think they are getting at the camera has no internal fuse or regulation if the current is exceeded the camera will smoke. You probably just need a regulated 12VDC power supply and a fuse to limit current to that of the supplied wall wort.

 

[upstatemike]

Part#?

PS Panasonic seems to do this quite often, the SDIII has a label that says use a 20VA power supply only. Well all professional installations use a distributed power supply. Basically I think they are getting at the camera has no internal fuse or regulation if the current is exceeded the camera will smoke. You probably just need a regulated 12VDC power supply and a fuse to limit current to that of the supplied wall wort.

Good point on no regulation in the camera. I think this is true because the absolute max input voltage is 13 volts which is a pretty narrow tolerance on a 12V device. I wanted to use an Elk P412 4-amp supply that is currently underutilized but it outputs 13.8 volts so I need to be SURE I drop some voltage in the wire run. (Maybe this is a case where I should use just 1 pair in a cat5 cable so I lose a couple of volts.)

Power supply and and camera say 750mA but I don't believe it will draw that much. Still, if I want to drop 2 volts at 750 mA I need approximately 2.7 ohms of wire resistance. If the camera really only draws 400 mA then I drop .8 volts and am still OK at 13V to the camera.

I can probably go as high as 5 ohms on the wire which keeps me above 10V at the camera at 750mA.

The camera is the BB-HCM331A and the power supply model number is PQLV202.

Because of the design you really can't use this camera without doing some modification to the power supply... It has an angled connector at the camera end so you would have to drill a 3/4 inch hole to the outside to feed the cable through without cutting the end off and re-splicing it. (I'm not going to drill a giant hole like that for 2 small wires). The power supply is in no way suitable for outdoor use and it must be mounted inside. If I have to cut the connector anyway, I would really like to use the distributed power supply I already have installed.

 

[Digger]

I am installing some Panasonic IP cameras this week but I do not like the 12V power supply that comes with them. (Kind of a pain for outdoor cameras). I would like to just power them from an Elk P412 power supply but the thing is covered with warnings about only using the power supply provided. Anyboduy know of a good reason why the supplied power supply needs to be used? Do these require special filtering or regulation of some sort? Is anybody already using alternate power supplies with these cameras?

Many manufacturers in the CCTV industry evaluate their products to UL2044 (CCTV), UL60950 (Information Technology Equipment) and/or UL6500 (Consumer Electronics Equipment). These standards have requirements that need to be met for safety. One item I can think of is fire safety. If the enclosure is plastic and rated 94HB the "power available" should be less than 15 watts in some of those standards (under any loading condition and under abnormal testing). That being said if you use a power supply other than the one specified the manufacturer cannot be certian it would meet those requirements and thus void the UL Listing (if any) and also limits the liability of the manufactuer since you modified the product or used it outside of their specifications.

Just one idea that popped into my head.

FYI in the past I worked with (not for) Panasonic and I can say that they test the hell out of their products in regards to safety.

Now in REALITY...... if you protected the line feeding the camera with a suitably rated protective device you would probably be fine!

 

[lpott6]

I don't mean to rain on your parade but the struggle you are going through is exactly why I decided to use the POE versions of the Panny cameras. One central switch with a power injector and a single cat5e to each camera that carries power, video and audio.

There is definitely a higher price to pay with a special switch and the cameras themselves, but I only plan to do it once.

The ease of installation with a single cable is priceless.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Good point on no regulation in the camera. I think this is true because the absolute max input voltage is 13 volts which is a pretty narrow tolerance on a 12V device. I wanted to use an Elk P412 4-amp supply that is currently underutilized but it outputs 13.8 volts so I need to be SURE I drop some voltage in the wire run.

Power supply and and camera say 750mA but I don't believe it will draw that much. Still, if I want to drop 2 volts at 750 mA I need approximately 2.7 ohms of wire resistance. If the camera really only draws 400 mA then I drop .8 volts and am still OK at 13V to the camera.

Make sure you consider the wattage of the resistor you use with this strategy... (Power = Voltage * Current)

If you only want to drop 0.8 volts (or so) you might want to use diode(s) instead.

 

[upstatemike]

I don't mean to rain on your parade but the struggle you are going through is exactly why I decided to use the POE versions of the Panny cameras. One central switch with a power injector and a single cat5e to each camera that carries power, video and audio.

There is definitely a higher price to pay with a special switch and the cameras themselves, but I only plan to do it once.

The ease of installation with a single cable is priceless.

I did think about this but since I needed 3 pairs to use the alarm1, alarm2, and output control features anyway, I knew I couldn't get away with a single cable.

Also POE stuff is hard to put on a battery since it runs at fifty some volts.

 

[gatchel]

Alarm 1, alarm2, etc.

People actually use that stuff?

 

[upstatemike]

Alarm 1, alarm2, etc.

People actually use that stuff?

Actually works pretty cool. Side door in the garage triggers alarm one and swings the camera to the alarm 1 position pointing at the door. Doorbell is hooked to alarm two and swings the camera to the entrance into the house. If I want to chck the garage at night (from someplace else on the planet) a button in the camera GUI allows a contact closure to operate the garage light. etc. etc.

Not sure if the light control button is implemented in the Elk RM GUI though. It would be nice if that feature was available from an Elk touch screen.

 

[sparky]

Hi:
I just finished installing a BBHCM371A Web Camera. Since it is outside and needs to be sealed, I created a 3ft. long pigtail that brought out alarm 1, alarm 2, power, trigger output and ethernet and then sealed the unit with the included goo and tape. I made up the pigtail terminations in a 4X4 j-box mounted near the camera to connect to the cables that we ran during construction that go back to the control board
As far as power goes, I cut the wall wart off the power supply that came with the camera and fed it with the central power supply I use for all the automation equipment. In my case, this is a Sola/Hevi-duty multi output switcher which provides closely regulated 5V, 12V, -12V, 24V. (Model GLQ-05-200). In the case of the +12V supply, I've created two "branch" circuits and each is fused. I feed several devices off each circuit and have found the regulation of the power supply to be stable.
I would invest in a good power supply rather than try to count on wire impedance to protect your investment.

By the way, I would be concerned about the trigger output. If your camera is similar to the 371A, then it has an open collector transistor output stage. This is a sinking output and can only handle about 100mA. It may be wise to consider the load that you are planning to drive with this output. If it's a garden variety Potter&Brumfield relay, for example, you may want to look at coil impedance and calculate current draw to be sure you're within the capability of the camera output circuit. Also, if you are using an interface relay or any inductive load, then it might be good to put a diode across the coil or load to dampen high energy spikes that could damage the camera output circuit when the load is shut off.

I use the camera output to turn on the outside lights via my stargate unit. I use the alarm 1 input to trigger the cam to take a picture when our drive alert goes off. The camera emails that picture to work and also sends me a text message on my cell phone. The text message is especially nice because it allows me to sprint to my PC and pull up the viewnetcam.com website and see what's happening real time at the house.


Thanks for letting me go on.....
Len

 

[upstatemike]

Hi:
I just finished installing a BBHCM371A Web Camera. Since it is outside and needs to be sealed, I created a 3ft. long pigtail that brought out alarm 1, alarm 2, power, trigger output and ethernet and then sealed the unit with the included goo and tape. I made up the pigtail terminations in a 4X4 j-box mounted near the camera to connect to the cables that we ran during construction that go back to the control board
As far as power goes, I cut the wall wart off the power supply that came with the camera and fed it with the central power supply I use for all the automation equipment. In my case, this is a Sola/Hevi-duty multi output switcher which provides closely regulated 5V, 12V, -12V, 24V. (Model GLQ-05-200). In the case of the +12V supply, I've created two "branch" circuits and each is fused. I feed several devices off each circuit and have found the regulation of the power supply to be stable.
I would invest in a good power supply rather than try to count on wire impedance to protect your investment.

By the way, I would be concerned about the trigger output. If your camera is similar to the 371A, then it has an open collector transistor output stage. This is a sinking output and can only handle about 100mA. It may be wise to consider the load that you are planning to drive with this output. If it's a garden variety Potter&Brumfield relay, for example, you may want to look at coil impedance and calculate current draw to be sure you're within the capability of the camera output circuit. Also, if you are using an interface relay or any inductive load, then it might be good to put a diode across the coil or load to dampen high energy spikes that could damage the camera output circuit when the load is shut off.

I use the camera output to turn on the outside lights via my stargate unit. I use the alarm 1 input to trigger the cam to take a picture when our drive alert goes off. The camera emails that picture to work and also sends me a text message on my cell phone. The text message is especially nice because it allows me to sprint to my PC and pull up the viewnetcam.com website and see what's happening real time at the house.


Thanks for letting me go on.....
Len

Hi Len,

These are some good points. I will probably use stargate inputs with the open collector triggers from my cameras since they are opto-isolated and low current. If I was going to use relays I would use Alarm Controls 8012s because they only draw 12 mA. I'll have to take a look at that Sola Power Supply!

 

[gcimmino]

Also check out this thread on POE.

I ended up using Ovislink POE with my BL-C10A cams as a cheap solution. The Ovis brick is plugged into a UPS in the closet.

 

[Digger]

I am installing some Panasonic IP cameras this week but I do not like the 12V power supply that comes with them. (Kind of a pain for outdoor cameras). I would like to just power them from an Elk P412 power supply but the thing is covered with warnings about only using the power supply provided. Anyboduy know of a good reason why the supplied power supply needs to be used? Do these require special filtering or regulation of some sort? Is anybody already using alternate power supplies with these cameras?

Mike,

How do you like your camera's? I have one indoor BL-C30A and a BB-HCM331A for outside on order. If I like them I will buy a few more as I really need to get some CCTV up and running.

I am thinking of getting a wireless outdoor version to put at the edge of the property facing the house. Its nice to see the actual house when you are away.

 

[upstatemike]

Mike,

How do you like your camera's? I have one indoor BL-C30A and a BB-HCM331A for outside on order. If I like them I will buy a few more as I really need to get some CCTV up and running.

I am thinking of getting a wireless outdoor version to put at the edge of the property facing the house. Its nice to see the actual house when you are away.

So far I am very pleased. I have 3 fired up now and can use the built-in multi camera mode to view them all at once without needing any software. I will add software later to play with recording and stuff but you can do a lot with these things using nothing but a browser.

One glitch I can't figure out... I turned on the time/date stamp on the cameras but for some reason it is fine on one and very small on the other two. Just spent two hours looking for a place in setup to adjust the time/date size but can't see a setting anywhere that controls it. Driving me nuts but so far it is my only complaint.