Prewiring for ceiling speakers....

[beelzerob]

It just occured to me that in the upper floor bedrooms, where I'm going to prewire for speakers (but don't plan on buying anytime soon) that they're going to lay a lot of blown-in insulation on top of that ceiling. So, when I finally decide that little Cindy needs speakers in her room, and I cut out that chunk of ceiling drywall.....I'm going to hear a sucking sound as the blown in insulation drains out that hole, and right into my face.

Sooo...should I plan to build a simple box out of 2X4's and plywood when i run the speaker wire? Or is there a more clever plan?

 

[upstatemike]

I wonder if ceiling speaker back boxes are in any way standardized? If they were you could put in the back boxes now (which would also protect the wires) and just put grills on the ceiling with no speakers in them and add the speakers later.

 

[Steve]

Unfortunately they are not standardized. I wanted to install back boxes but could not find any generic ones. If you have access to the attic later, you can always go up there and move the insulation out of the way first. I pretty much did that, and also yo may sure I would not hit any obstructions, wires, etc. You could also use these like I did. If you have access you can go into attic after drywall and before insulation and put these where you want and staple/duct tape them in place. Just need to be careful not to damage them when cutting holes. Or... cut a dummy hole and put fake drill with these above and add speaker later. Or... sure you can build a wood box, but I think you will need to put insulation in it later. Or... just bite the bullet and put the speakers in up front - would be much easier anyway... Little Cindy will probably be bugging you for them well before you decide she needs them

 

[politics123]

I wonder if ceiling speaker back boxes are in any way standardized? If they were you could put in the back boxes now (which would also protect the wires) and just put grills on the ceiling with no speakers in them and add the speakers later.

I have a better solution. Just buy the speakers now!

Seriously, you can get cheap speakers for $40/pair, or relatively decent ones for $100-$200/pair. If you buy the rough-in kits, the drywall guys will cut holes for you and everything. You connect the speakers after painting and before insultation, and then there is no mess what-so-ever.

 

[Mike P]

Hi,

I used Rigid foam insulation and made a large box in the ceiling before sheetrock. I sealed all edges with silicone. The speakers sound great, If I crank it to high, I blow the covers off the speakers... Did I mention they sound GREAT..

Hope this helps,

Mike

 

[beelzerob]

Or... just bite the bullet and put the speakers in up front - would be much easier anyway... Little Cindy will probably be bugging you for them well before you decide she needs them

Ya...the problem is, that seems to be the solution to EVERY problem or situation we've faced with the house so far. "Oh, let's just do it now instead of sometime in the future....".

Our excavator has done a good job of spreading our money out on the ground in the form of gravel...so we're having to funnel money towards only essential house improvements. Plus, with all this wiring planning, I just don't have the time to start doing speaker research. Sadly for Little Cindie, that means no speakers just yet.

I'd REALLY like to avoid going into the attic....kinda the whole point of pre-wiring! Is the only problem with building a wooden box right now the issue with insulation? If so....won't they just blow insulation over the top of that wooden box when the do the whole attic? I wasn't expecting this box to be much higher than the ceiling trusses.

Then again...I suppose I could avoid all of this hassle by just moving the speakers to the wall, eh? :huh:

 

[RobWalker]

Then again...I suppose I could avoid all of this hassle by just moving the speakers to the wall, eh?

Yeah ... that's what I did. By the time I got to that stage I was tired enough of wiring (high & low voltage) that the thought of building boxes, installing vapour barrier and sealing everything was too much effort.

Someone also pointed out in a similar thread at the time that wall speakers have some advantages, including much better stereo separation.

 

[SnyperBob]

Unfortunately they are not standardized. I wanted to install back boxes but could not find any generic ones. If you have access to the attic later, you can always go up there and move the insulation out of the way first. I pretty much did that, and also yo may sure I would not hit any obstructions, wires, etc. You could also use these like I did. If you have access you can go into attic after drywall and before insulation and put these where you want and staple/duct tape them in place. Just need to be careful not to damage them when cutting holes. Or... cut a dummy hole and put fake drill with these above and add speaker later. Or... sure you can build a wood box, but I think you will need to put insulation in it later. Or... just bite the bullet and put the speakers in up front - would be much easier anyway... Little Cindy will probably be bugging you for them well before you decide she needs them

Hmm, I'm planning for ceiling speakers and I didn't know about those baggy things. How well do they work? Do you just wire it up, put the baggy around it, pop the speaker in the ceiling, and then cover it with the blown insulation? Do they affect the sound of the speakers much?

Edit: That site has two reviews for those baggy's. One said that it works great, the other says that their covers blow off and let insulation in. I find this hard to believe...

 

[Herdfan]

Been there, done that and even though I went into the attic and cleared away the insulation, air flow managed to bring some down in my face anyway.

As has been mentioned, building a back box out of 2x6 or 2x8's is one solution, but another one is to go buy a roll of regular fiberglass insulation. The unfaced stuff for walls should work fine. The lay out sections (3-4 feet long the width of the joists) of it where the speakers are going to go and place the wire under it. Then the blown in insulation will cover it to the required depth. Then when you cut the hole, you have regular insulation to put the speaker up against and the blown-in doesn't doesn't come down the hole.

 

[MikeB]

As has been mentioned, building a back box out of 2x6 or 2x8's is one solution, but another one is to go buy a roll of regular fiberglass insulation. The unfaced stuff for walls should work fine. The lay out sections (3-4 feet long the width of the joists) of it where the speakers are going to go and place the wire under it. Then the blown in insulation will cover it to the required depth. Then when you cut the hole, you have regular insulation to put the speaker up against and the blown-in doesn't doesn't come down the hole.

Great idea!

 

[Steve]

Hmm, I'm planning for ceiling speakers and I didn't know about those baggy things. How well do they work? Do you just wire it up, put the baggy around it, pop the speaker in the ceiling, and then cover it with the blown insulation? Do they affect the sound of the speakers much?

Edit: That site has two reviews for those baggy's. One said that it works great, the other says that their covers blow off and let insulation in. I find this hard to believe...

That first review (Aug 20) was actually me . As I said in the review, the idea is good but the problem is the 'bag' opens up with a spring steel base and it sits on the ceiling. The problem is if you do it from below when you lift the speaker and attached wire into the hole, the thing will just push up with it. It will still protect somewhat, but still space for that blown in crap to enter. Since I had access to the attic I just stapled and taped it down after speakers were in. I found out after (and would probably try first) is to just put an elastic shower cap over the back of the speaker (you can even run a strip of tape around it as security) and just stick it up there. But that still does not protect against a boatload of the stuff from coming out of the hole when you cut.

When I mentioned insulation in the plywood box, I was referring to the inside of the box as I heard a plain plywood box could cause issues with the sound. I also actually got some fiberglass roll that i put over the insu-flate covers. The problem is that the blown in stuff is so nasty and sneaky it will find a way in unless you have a really good seal.

I don't know if its practical or not, but if I ever built another house, I would actually avoid the blown in stuff like the plague and just put roll/batt insulation in the entire attic. I spent enough time in attics here to learn to hate the stuff. It's just too messy, gets pushed out of the way too easily, almost requires a mask since it is always airborn, etc. And with rolled insulation you don't have to worry about the speakers later. But, it is probably too much $$ to do it that way :huh:

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I agree having spent some time in my attic, that blown in stuff is just plain nasty!

BTW, Congrats on post #2000 Steve!

 

[beelzerob]

When I mentioned insulation in the plywood box, I was referring to the inside of the box as I heard a plain plywood box could cause issues with the sound. I also actually got some fiberglass roll that i put over the insu-flate covers. The problem is that the blown in stuff is so nasty and sneaky it will find a way in unless you have a really good seal.

So you'd still recommend building a wooden box then? I was confused about the insulation too, I thought you meant to insulate the top of the box from the outside....I wondered if the box height would keep the blown in insulation from settling on it. Now it makes sense...it's just to keep it from being an echo chamber.

What is the typical depth of an in-ceiling speaker? If I just built a box the height of the ceiling joists (so, just frame in a box with the same size lumber...I THINK they're 2 X 4's), that should be deep enough for a typical speaker, right?

Herdfan, I like the idea...but don't quite understand it.

 

[upstatemike]

I think he is saying to just put the wire on top of the ceiling sheetrock between to joists. Then lay a bat of fiberglass insluation over it like a blanket. (Not a small piece, but enough to go well to each side of the speaker. The blown in insulation will cover it but when you cut a hole from below you will just have the wire and the blanket of fiberglass above it... no blown-in stuff will come crashing down. A pretty clever solution because it addresses sound concerns, thermal concerns, and is simple to to do.

 

[Steve]

I think he is saying to just put the wire on top of the ceiling sheetrock between to joists. Then lay a bat of fiberglass insluation over it like a blanket. (Not a small piece, but enough to go well to each side of the speaker. The blown in insulation will cover it but when you cut a hole from below you will just have the wire and the blanket of fiberglass above it... no blown-in stuff will come crashing down. A pretty clever solution because it addresses sound concerns, thermal concerns, and is simple to to do.

Yup, that's what he means, but I would counter/add that you can't just lay the rolled stuff in place. You have to seal it on all sides. Any jiggling of it, especially when moving the wire around or installing the speaker, you can bet that blown in stuff will find a way in. And you DON'T want any of that stuff getting into the back of your speakers.