Pulling chime off doorbell circuit
- Thread starter IVB
- Start date
I use a ds10 that sends a signal to Homeseer and plays a wave file over the ceiling speakers. I also snap a picture of the person and a picture of the street to identify the vehicle. Its then emailed to my phone and work. Its nice to know when a package got delivered or a friend stopped by.
One of my actions is to send an email to my phone. It grabs the last picture taken from the folder where the pictures are stored and emails it out. Heres what I have in the attachment field.
C:\Program Files\HomeSeer 2\html\WebCam\Conexant 2388x Video Capture\Video Tuner\Latest.jpg
It then takes the street picture and repeats this action.
C:\Program Files\HomeSeer 2\html\WebCam\Conexant 2388x Video Capture\Video Tuner\Latest.jpg
It then takes the street picture and repeats this action.
OK, sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but hopefully it's easier for everyone than starting a new one. I'm very much a newbie so apologies in advance for asking simplistic questions..
While my neighborhood is generally nice and quiet, we have been seeing an increasing number of "early" (for the weekend, anyway) solicitors coming to ring our doorbell when we would rather be asleep. I'm guessing I can just undo one of the two bell wire connections in my existing doorbell (the thing that makes noise, not the switch) or wire in a switch, but I'm of course concerned about ease of use (and forgetting to turn the doorbell back on). The doorbell does have a light and it would be nice to keep the doorbell when the circuit is connected but I don't mind losing it when the circuit is off.
So.. I'd like to modify my doorbell circuit so that the doorbell doesn't make noise between, say, 10pm and 10am. In principle this doesn't sound too different from what IVB and others were talking about doing earlier in this thread. Unfortunately, toymaster's diagrams from earlier on this thread are now showing as broken images so I want to make sure I'm thinking about doing this right.
I have an HAI Omnipro 2 and i haven't yet started using any of the outputs on it, so I figure this is a good place to start. I also have an ELK 960 sitting around that I'm hoping I can use for this purpose, but I haven't really worked with relays before (I'm a software guy and other than crimping/running UTP and putting in UPB switches I don't really touch wires much). I would eventually like to incorporate an ELK 930 (or maybe wire directly to an input on the HAI panel?) for doorbell ring detection to trigger automation events, but for now just being able to program "hours of operation" for the doorbell would be a huge win for WAF.
Looking at the instructions that came with the ELK 960, I feel like I'm in a bit over my head (pls pardon the ignorance). How do I wire in the ELK 960 and my HAI panel to the existing circuit? Are there other changes which are necessary, if I don't mind losing the light when the bell is disconnected? How would I add the ELK 930 down the road?
While my neighborhood is generally nice and quiet, we have been seeing an increasing number of "early" (for the weekend, anyway) solicitors coming to ring our doorbell when we would rather be asleep. I'm guessing I can just undo one of the two bell wire connections in my existing doorbell (the thing that makes noise, not the switch) or wire in a switch, but I'm of course concerned about ease of use (and forgetting to turn the doorbell back on). The doorbell does have a light and it would be nice to keep the doorbell when the circuit is connected but I don't mind losing it when the circuit is off.
So.. I'd like to modify my doorbell circuit so that the doorbell doesn't make noise between, say, 10pm and 10am. In principle this doesn't sound too different from what IVB and others were talking about doing earlier in this thread. Unfortunately, toymaster's diagrams from earlier on this thread are now showing as broken images so I want to make sure I'm thinking about doing this right.
I have an HAI Omnipro 2 and i haven't yet started using any of the outputs on it, so I figure this is a good place to start. I also have an ELK 960 sitting around that I'm hoping I can use for this purpose, but I haven't really worked with relays before (I'm a software guy and other than crimping/running UTP and putting in UPB switches I don't really touch wires much). I would eventually like to incorporate an ELK 930 (or maybe wire directly to an input on the HAI panel?) for doorbell ring detection to trigger automation events, but for now just being able to program "hours of operation" for the doorbell would be a huge win for WAF.
Looking at the instructions that came with the ELK 960, I feel like I'm in a bit over my head (pls pardon the ignorance). How do I wire in the ELK 960 and my HAI panel to the existing circuit? Are there other changes which are necessary, if I don't mind losing the light when the bell is disconnected? How would I add the ELK 930 down the road?
tmbrown97
Senior Member
The Elk960 is great for detecting the press of the doorbell button and feeding it into the input of your panel... If you're planning on triggering something based on the press of the button, this is a decent way to go. However, by the time it fires, the doorbell has rung already. Most of us use it to trigger automation such as the snapping of pictures, etc - or, as a means of detecting doorbell ring so we can ditch the standard doorbells and make our own through the automation speakers throughout the house.
Reading your post, it seems like you're probably just trying to disable the existing doorbell, not necessarily reroute it at the same time. If you completely reroute it, it should be simple enough to say "if doorbell is pressed and time is not between X and X then play sound X". However, if your purpose is purely to prevent the doorbell from ringing, then it's probably not the way to go.
Actually, just disrupting the circuit is very easy... you can use some form of automation equipment like the HAI, or even use a relay with an X10 universal module to accomplish that. Just take a relay (Elk912 I think is well suited) - and trigger it.
The way a relay works is it's basically a switch that's activated when power is applied rather than a physical switch. What you're switching can be anything - powered, speakers, etc. If you want them to be, the switched terminals are isolated from the activation current. Most relays have Common, NO and NC contacts. When no power is applied, Common is connected to NC. Apply power, and it connects Common to NO. You don't have to use both NC and NO - in this case, you'd prob. use NC only.
So, here's two ways you could handle that:
1. I don't have any experience with HAI, but I'd imagine it can do whatever the Elk can... You'd disconnect one of the wires anywhere in the circuit and connect it to the common - then from NC to wherever you disconnected it from. Then, you'd connect the 12v trigger so that when power is applied (positive and negative - one constant, one as the trigger) it energizes the relay, breaking the circuit.
2. Using a universal or appliance module, you could send power to a relay during certain times (on at 10:00PM, off at 10:00AM)... as long as that relay has power, the relay is energized and the circuit is broken. Pretty simple.
It's late, so I may not be making the most sense, but let us know if you need more clarification - and specify if you plan to keep the existing doorbell and just disable it or if you want to get away from it.
Reading your post, it seems like you're probably just trying to disable the existing doorbell, not necessarily reroute it at the same time. If you completely reroute it, it should be simple enough to say "if doorbell is pressed and time is not between X and X then play sound X". However, if your purpose is purely to prevent the doorbell from ringing, then it's probably not the way to go.
Actually, just disrupting the circuit is very easy... you can use some form of automation equipment like the HAI, or even use a relay with an X10 universal module to accomplish that. Just take a relay (Elk912 I think is well suited) - and trigger it.
The way a relay works is it's basically a switch that's activated when power is applied rather than a physical switch. What you're switching can be anything - powered, speakers, etc. If you want them to be, the switched terminals are isolated from the activation current. Most relays have Common, NO and NC contacts. When no power is applied, Common is connected to NC. Apply power, and it connects Common to NO. You don't have to use both NC and NO - in this case, you'd prob. use NC only.
So, here's two ways you could handle that:
1. I don't have any experience with HAI, but I'd imagine it can do whatever the Elk can... You'd disconnect one of the wires anywhere in the circuit and connect it to the common - then from NC to wherever you disconnected it from. Then, you'd connect the 12v trigger so that when power is applied (positive and negative - one constant, one as the trigger) it energizes the relay, breaking the circuit.
2. Using a universal or appliance module, you could send power to a relay during certain times (on at 10:00PM, off at 10:00AM)... as long as that relay has power, the relay is energized and the circuit is broken. Pretty simple.
It's late, so I may not be making the most sense, but let us know if you need more clarification - and specify if you plan to keep the existing doorbell and just disable it or if you want to get away from it.
Thanks Todd!
So.. if i understand correctly, you're saying:
option 1: use a cheaper relay like the Elk 912 (it sounds like the ELK 960 is overkill?) as follows:
option 2: use, e.g., a UPB appliance module to switch power on/off for the 110V power feed into the transformer powering the doorbell circuit?
if correct, either option sounds great, but I would probably go with the relay. i'm guessing either way, this means the doorbell light would be off when the circuit is disconnected.
one thing i'm not clear on is: if down the road i wanted to wire in doorbell detection to my HAI panel, it sounds like i could either wire the doorbell bell wire to an input zone directly (treat it as an NO contact), or use another relay. rereading earlier messages in the thread, it sounds like there are potential issues w/ wiring directly to an input zone (no light, possible problems if the HAI panel is off?, quick doorbell press may not be detected?). if i were to use a relay to work around these issues, i'm not quite sure how i would wire it in, esp. in light of the relay setup described in option 1 above.
So.. if i understand correctly, you're saying:
option 1: use a cheaper relay like the Elk 912 (it sounds like the ELK 960 is overkill?) as follows:
- disconnect one of the low voltage wires from the doorbell unit and plug it into the common terminal of the relay
- take a wire from the NC terminal and replace the low-voltage connection on the doorbell unit
- hook + and - terminals on the relay to the + and GND terminals of an HAI output zone
- write a small program on the HAI that says turn the output on between, say, 10pm and 10am
option 2: use, e.g., a UPB appliance module to switch power on/off for the 110V power feed into the transformer powering the doorbell circuit?
if correct, either option sounds great, but I would probably go with the relay. i'm guessing either way, this means the doorbell light would be off when the circuit is disconnected.
one thing i'm not clear on is: if down the road i wanted to wire in doorbell detection to my HAI panel, it sounds like i could either wire the doorbell bell wire to an input zone directly (treat it as an NO contact), or use another relay. rereading earlier messages in the thread, it sounds like there are potential issues w/ wiring directly to an input zone (no light, possible problems if the HAI panel is off?, quick doorbell press may not be detected?). if i were to use a relay to work around these issues, i'm not quite sure how i would wire it in, esp. in light of the relay setup described in option 1 above.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
I literally just went through the doorbell issue yesterday after about 2 months of thinking/talking about it...
Here's the thing - the 930 is great for detecting the ringing of the doorbell with the existing doorbell still hooked up - but it doesn't interrupt the doorbell and in its native fashion, it keeps the doorbell light, still rings the doorbell, but allows you to also capture the doorbell to trigger automation by sending a pulse to a zone input. It won't function without the existing doorbell to trigger the current draw.
This thread talks about some of the options around all that:
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...amp;hl=doorbell
I followed BSR's advice for a quick fix and stripped the doorbell apart so that it couldn't make the chime noise, but still drew enough current to trigger the 930. The way the 930 works is that when the doorbell that's connected in-line with it draws current (from activating the plunger) it does a pull-to-ground on the other zone-input circuit. If you didn't want to use the 930 and keep your doorbell (even dismantled and out of sight) you could use a 16VAC relay (hard to find - see my notes) and use the contact closure of the relay to also trigger a zone - but I couldn't get the right relay quickly.
For the purposes of muting the doorbell, your best bet is exactly as you confirmed back - use a relay that, when activated, disrupts the circuit. As you noticed, the added bonus is that the light goes out too (I didn't mention that, but thought it was a cool side effect).
Otherwise, you can completely eliminate the doorbell for the audio and have the trigger instead activate the playing of a sound - all through the HAI - in which case it's easy enough to add a rule that says "when input X is triggered AND the hours are between X and X, Trigger sound X". All of the different methods of eliminating the doorbell are discussed in the above thread.
Now - using the doorbell detector and the method above may not give desired results, as if the relay is disabling the doorbell, the pressing of the button won't trigger the 930 either. In that case, you'd want to get a little tricky with the wiring. If that time comes, post some details on here about exactly what you want, and we can point you in the right direction.
In my case, my ultimate goal is to completely eliminate the existing doorbell while keeping the light - so I'll be replacing the doorbell and the 930 with an appropriate 16VAC relay that, when triggered, closes the zone momentarily. That'll elminate the 930, allow the light to still work, and get rid of the existing doorbell altogether.
Here's the thing - the 930 is great for detecting the ringing of the doorbell with the existing doorbell still hooked up - but it doesn't interrupt the doorbell and in its native fashion, it keeps the doorbell light, still rings the doorbell, but allows you to also capture the doorbell to trigger automation by sending a pulse to a zone input. It won't function without the existing doorbell to trigger the current draw.
This thread talks about some of the options around all that:
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...amp;hl=doorbell
I followed BSR's advice for a quick fix and stripped the doorbell apart so that it couldn't make the chime noise, but still drew enough current to trigger the 930. The way the 930 works is that when the doorbell that's connected in-line with it draws current (from activating the plunger) it does a pull-to-ground on the other zone-input circuit. If you didn't want to use the 930 and keep your doorbell (even dismantled and out of sight) you could use a 16VAC relay (hard to find - see my notes) and use the contact closure of the relay to also trigger a zone - but I couldn't get the right relay quickly.
For the purposes of muting the doorbell, your best bet is exactly as you confirmed back - use a relay that, when activated, disrupts the circuit. As you noticed, the added bonus is that the light goes out too (I didn't mention that, but thought it was a cool side effect).
Otherwise, you can completely eliminate the doorbell for the audio and have the trigger instead activate the playing of a sound - all through the HAI - in which case it's easy enough to add a rule that says "when input X is triggered AND the hours are between X and X, Trigger sound X". All of the different methods of eliminating the doorbell are discussed in the above thread.
Now - using the doorbell detector and the method above may not give desired results, as if the relay is disabling the doorbell, the pressing of the button won't trigger the 930 either. In that case, you'd want to get a little tricky with the wiring. If that time comes, post some details on here about exactly what you want, and we can point you in the right direction.
In my case, my ultimate goal is to completely eliminate the existing doorbell while keeping the light - so I'll be replacing the doorbell and the 930 with an appropriate 16VAC relay that, when triggered, closes the zone momentarily. That'll elminate the 930, allow the light to still work, and get rid of the existing doorbell altogether.
