RFID arming/disarming

[randytester]

I'm looking to arm and disarm my Elk M1 via RFID.  My thoughts are to buy a RFID reader and some key fobs (that support Weigand 26), and install the reader inside the house in place of a keypad (i dont have a keypad), and when somebody leaves/enters they just scan the fob and the ELK communicates that the system is armed/disarmed. 
 
What I'm wondering is, can i just buy a RFID reader from amazon and hook it directly to the M1?
 
or do i need a keypad to hook it up?, or a M1KAM module also?

 

[Del91574]

Either a keypad or a KAM is necessary.
 
Why not just install the keypad and then put the plug in reader inside of it....now you at least have arm status and additional feedback without having to configure multiple outputs for LED operation.
 
Also, while it is possible to bend the weigand into 485, the issue is going to be the protocol of the data the M1 bus operates with...not worth the effort IMHO.

 

[randytester]

Thanks DelInstallations
 
Unfortunately i purchased the M1GSYS3 kit, which didnt have a keypad.   Guess im going to have to buy a keypad now.
 
thanks again

 

[tmbrown97]

I think the point of that system is just to let you pick your own of the several available keypad options.  The traditional options do all allow for a keypad to be directly attached - and though the KAM exists as another option for adding a reader, I'll mention one key difference - you can't enroll from a reader attached to a KAM, but you can from a reader attached to a keypad.  That can be handy if you don't know with absolute certainty what the facility and card codes are for a given card - they're not always printed on the back.  Pretty handy if you want to dual-purpose an existing card.
 
Seems silly not to have a keypad - especially on something as powerful as an M1 - they're way more than just basic security - but without a keypad it's very hard to interact with the system.

 

[randytester]

Makes sense.  I originally had this HA scenario in my head, where it would detect our Iphones and arm/disarm the system automatically.   But the more i searched, the more i realized that it really isnt that reliable/cost effective just yet.
 
Oh well, like you said the keypad adds a lot of flexibility, so time to add it to the list.

 

[Del91574]

While there's a move by HID to get NFC credential management onto smartphones, think about the intended application...they're trying to get into the academic market where credentials are commonly lost. Will Alpha Phi Delta lose their card/fob/college ID? Will the same group statistically lose their phone?
 
In your application, are you saying that any time you walk up to the house, the system automatically disarms or grants access? That would worry me and be troublesome...not to mention the sheer volume of logic to throw in (I'm home, phone is dead, or just idle, how does the system know to arm or let me leave). Far too many things for it to be a viable option IMO.
 
There's plenty of ways to easily get the site code if it's not listed, assuming a standard credential manufacturer and not an oddball...but still, you can read the card, or easier...take the numbers off the back and contact the credential manufacturer. They always have the information on file, even for sites using access control 30+years ago.

 

[tmbrown97]

True - but some cards have numbers that don't match, some random, etc... and since he doesn't already have a keypad, that makes more sense than a KAM.
 
I've toyed around with some logic based on long-range RFID and vehicle tracking and logic, but at the end of the day, the best security comes from someone punching in a code that only exists in their head.  The only reason I've considered messing with that is because my kids get out of the car and run in the house while I'm still rounding up the baby or other stuff in the car, shortening my chance to get to the keypad...

 

[Del91574]

Believe it or not, the numbers on the card always correlate to something, they're never random, even in their most secure formats...the only time they do not would be if they aren't physically there, like if they're worn off, but that's another issue altogether, or if there's multiple technologies in the card, such as wiegand and Iclass. Put it this way....there's a lot to credentials that most are unaware of. There's never going to be random numbers printed on the card and if the numbers don't match the actual credential number, that's a function of the card offset and usually that can be determined relatively easily....hell, under a 5 minute phone call to HID would tell you 99% of the information about the card itself...they're the guys that make the bulk of the hardware and readers on the market.
 
 
Time to get a AVI reader from transcore...possibly some shock collars.

 

[tmbrown97]

yeah, I know - but that could turn into future forum posts to try to explain when someone wants to use their work badge at home, it's been coded with an offset, and all they have is a KAM ^_^
 
Next we could show people how easy it is to copy the HID keychain fob with a $15 copier from china while they're getting their cars serviced and really screw up the sense of security!  Tip - I never give my keys to anyone - if they need my car key, that's all they get... and the GPS in our cars' "Home" location never points to our real homes... but that's getting pretty OT.

 

[Del91574]

True...but then again, we're only talking regular 26 bit weigand and once any credential is out of the possession of the person, almost anything is possible. At least it's slightly better than using RF remotes. Security and access control systems are designed to specific criteria and risks...of course with the M1, at least you can do the same as with an access system....limit the credential use and/or require a code.
 
Not to mention, I believe Elk's credentials uses the same EM format as Ness, which isn't common. I haven't looked into it further...really no need on my part....I have too many cards, fobs and credentials as it is. I can't (though I may be wrong) see many people taking a different manufacturer's reader and install it on the M1. Not saying it's not possible or wouldn't be considered, but usually outside of the scope of most people.

 

[IVB]

as per my other post just now, I use NFC for this. Tasker calls a CQC URL only visible from inside my network, and NFC only gets triggered if you get within 1/4". Finally, my sticker is white and I have white trim, so unless you're looking right at it you wouldn't even notice its there.
 
My SSID isn't broadcast, so if you know it and you hack in to get the WiFi password and you know where the sticker is, go nuts, take my stuff.