Round Speakers vs. Rectangular (in-ceilings)

[DIYitAll]

Is there any "functional" difference between the two?
 
Or is it purely physical design that seems to dictate the selection?
 
Purely out of personal taste, I chose six pairs of Polk (rectangular) speakers to put in my ceiling.  I just felt that they match the squareness of the rooms, the rectangular HVAC registers, etc.  Of course, it takes some effort to get them cut-in and mounted square to the room.  But now I'm wondering if I should just put them in the walls for quality of sound.
 
Reasons I didn't want them in the walls:
1)  The bass from the backside is waaaaayyyyy loowwwwwwww, thumping even at the lowest volumes.  Mounted in the ceiling, that bass is directed into the attic and away from the living space (single level home).
2)  Easier access to tweak with wiring, build boxes around them, install/remove, more insulation on top of them (versus hot exterior walls), etc.
 
I bought these things a couple years back, but I've only (permanently) mounted one pair as of yet.
 
 

 

[dgage]

Speakers are so subjective that there is no such thing as the best speaker.  Round or square?  I'm sure there are awesome examples of each.  One of the challenges you have with the type of speakers you have is that they're open in the back, meaning no box.  This is why you are seeing different sonic performance in a wall vs the ceiling, which is over and above the placement effect (direction of sound).  I'd expect there would be a much smaller difference if you built a box for the speakers but without full parameters for the speakers, you can't know what size "enclosure" the designers used as their optimal goal.  If your attic is open, you are probably not getting any bass from the speakers at all, while in the wall you are getting too much.  Without actual speaker parameters, I might recommend you create some large boxes to place behind the speakers in the attic to bring "some" bass back into the picture.  What size box?  To simulate infinite baffle, meaning open wall cavity or space, I might recommend a 2-3 feet long box by 1 foot wide and deep enough for the speakers plus some extra to ensure a future speaker would fit if you ever upgrade.  As you suggested, the box would also protect the speakers from the harsh attic environment.
 
Also, part of the thumping you may hear in the wall could be from drywall or similar vibrating/resonating due to the speakers.  You could always try the speakers in the wall with some insulation/fiberfill to break up the bass waves, place some braces internally on the wall, and add additional drywall screws to the studs.
 
If you are happy with the Polks you bought then that is all that matters.  I am looking at some speaker(s) for the kitchen and I am trying to figure out what I want with front runners being a single Definitive Technology UIW RSS II or a few Triad speakers; round or in walls, which will be installed in the ceiling.  Notice that these are both square and round with the biggest difference compared to the Polks (besides price) is that all of the speakers I am looking at have enclosures.  This ensures the design will be optimal (as engineered) regardless of the wall or ceiling cavity.
 
David

 

[Neurorad]

Polk can tell you the ideal back box volume, for that particular speaker.
 
I'd do in-ceiling.  Easier, and fewer sound transmission problems.
 
If for TV audio also, do in-wall, at the TV height.
 
This reminds me, I have a pair rectangular in-ceilings I need to replace, in the porch.  Looking slightly rusted, after 20 years, but still sound fine.

 

[Neurorad]

Room acoustics trump ceiling v. wall; neither will sound great, without proper acoustical treatments in the room.
 
I haven't tried it yet, but I think a subwoofer would be a good addition in some of my audio zones.

 

[DIYitAll]

I'm definitely happy with them, and anyone who's heard them in my house are equally impressed.  But at this point in life, my hearing is completely trashed, so my system will probably never go above '3' on the volume knob.
 
Room acoustics?  Yes.  What a difference even some furniture makes!  I suspect carpet would be the best thing for it, but only one room in my home will ever have carpet...hard floors everywhere else. 
No TV audio here, but most likely sticking with the ceilings, and all boxed up.
 
In a sense, what really prompted my OP was a walk past the audio/video accessories aisle at Lowe's the other night: right there on the shelf, in-wall and in-ceiling speakers.  Who woulda thunk it just a few years ago???  Lowe's?
 
So the boxes said "in-ceiling" for the rounds, and "in-wall" for the rectangulars.  But I was doubting whether the technology within them is all that much different :huh:  

 

[Neurorad]

Same tech, different form factor, AFAIK.
 
The round speakers often have a movable center tweeter, that can be aimed, usually for TV audio.  Mine point straight down, for distributed audio.

 

[scottgoodman]

Having worked for over a decade with several audio manufacturers, your rectangular speakers were definitely designed by the audio engineer who 'voiced' them to be installed in a wall, not in a ceiling.  Not saying it won't sound good, but the crossover and voicing was not designed to be installed in the ceiling.  If you keep them in the ceiling, recommend building a box that closely resembles the square footage of a typical wall cavity (3.5" deep, 8' high, 14.5" wide).
 
Again, not saying it won't work or it won't sound good, but that wasn't their intention.  

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

There are also speakers available that will allow you to put either square or round grills on them.

 

[Neurorad]

Most every in-ceiling and in-wall speaker manufacturer will give you the ideal back box volumes for each of their speakers, if you ask them.
 
FWIW, I just purchased a pair of rectangular Monitor Audio in-walls, for my porch, that I will be using in-ceiling.  The manufacturer/rep provided me with the ideal back box volume, with additional suggestions.  The rectangular cutouts were already there, but I need to enlarge them.

 

[DIYitAll]

I think I will inquire, since I can block the joists almost anywhere I wish. 
 
The manufacturer's response should be interesting.  The reason I say this is, on stud cavity volumes, there's no such thing as "typical" wall cavities.  For one thing, there are 2x4 walls, and 2x6 walls.  There are walls with insulation (exteriors), and some walls without insulation (interiors).  Then, there's fire blocking, which effectively makes for a 4, 5 or 6 foot cavitiy, depending on the overall wall height from floor to ceiling.  Then there's the unusual 2x3 wall...I had to see it to believe it - I helped a friend hang all new doors in a home with 2x3 walls, as if every stick was ripped by an inch (somewhat uncommon, but some builders did it here in middle-California).
 
My ears ring so badly, with severe hyperacusis, that these things will be on low pretty much all the time.  I don't know that I could ever truly enjoy the full capability of them in an optimum environment.  I should finish this project by mid-summer.
 
Edit: playing with font sizing, line spacing.

 

[dgage]

By the way, for my kitchen I ended up ordering Definitive Technology UIW RCS II speakers, which are technically square but are really multiple drivers in a square cabinet for the ceiling. This particular speaker is designed for home theater and are aimed at a 40 or so degree angle from the ceiling. I hope to receive them in the next couple weeks.

David

 

[Neurorad]

Regardless of the wall, there is an ideal back box volume for every in-wall and in-ceiling speaker, unless the speaker is made with a rear enclosure. I was emailed a table listing the ideal back box volumes for their speakers.

The response from the very helpful Monitor Audio gentleman:
Attached is a chart with recommended back box volumes...

The WT165 (same as W165) has a recommended volume of .35 cu ft. However, our
experience (as noted on sheet) is that they work better when provided more
volume....I would suggest that you aim for around .75 cu ft for best
performamnce...

I think the chart volumes are inaccurate, because the numbers were designed with a 2 x 4 wall in mind. I've read that all in-wall and in-ceiling speaker manufacturers provide a chart like this.

 

[DIYitAll]

Straight from Polk:  "All of our speakers are of an 'open-air infinite baffle' design....we don't recommend anything less than 1 cu.ft., but any size wall or ceiling cavity or opening will do."
 
Knowing this, I will still build some form of enclosures around my ceiling boxes to protect them from the severe attic heat and dust/moisture exposure.
 
But here's what's even more peculiar:  a couple years back, when I was procuring all of these speakers (6 pairs total), they were suddenly removed from the Fry's stores, and then, on Polk's website, they were listed as "discontinued, no longer available."  I even had to buy the rest of my pairs off Amazon.
 
Then, last week, I go to Polk's website to get this cavity volume information, and evidently the RC65i and RC85i in-walls are back to front-and-center stage.  What the...?????    Heck, now everybody's got 'em again.  Tech support at Polk said "Oh yeah, the RCi line is one of our most popular."
 
Whatever.  Who can ever figure out these companies.  It always seems when you find something good, at the right price-point, it's discontinued...or so it seemed!

 

[Neurorad]

Another important difference of round v rectangular, in-ceiling - more difficult to align the larger, rectangular speakers with ceiling lights and fan(s).
 
50/50 chance that the ceiling joists will screw you, depending on the direction of the joists.  If the existing can lights are mounted in boxes attached to a single joist, the larger speaker will be very difficult to align without cutting joists.  If a row of can lights are attached to 1 joist, use a 6" round speaker.
 
I lucked out with my rectangular in-ceilings on my porch; joists are perpendicular to my row of lights/fan.

 

[pete_c]

I used round speakers in my ceiling speakers in current home. There are cans/spots here and there.   The main floor of the house has about 1.5 feet of space between ceiling drywall and the second floor with two sets of joists; one on the bottom and one on the top. I have never seen that before.  It did cause some issues when making the wiring chase from the basement to the attic.   When I cut the holes for speakers I could see the entire ceiling cavity with a flashlight.
 
I do also have mostly all rectangular in wall speakers on the walls installed today.  In the pool area in Florida (Lanai) I used rectangular in the ceiling speakers and should have used round speakers.  Ceiling does have round cans with one fan in the center.  You don't really notice them too much; but they are not really aesthetically pleasing (?)
 
One of the local HA installers display rooms demo'd in wall and in ceiling "blended" speakers where the wall material actually was the speaker "cone"  It sounded OK and the speakers were not seen. I had never seen this before.
 
Personally many years ago I installed 2X2 acoustical ceiling tiles in one of my offices; they sounded OK and you really couldn't tell one ceiling tile from another in the drop ceiling. (personally for me it was an experiment in the 1980's)