Router Recommendations, Please?

[Madcodger]

I have been trying to move to a new HTPC using extenders, and frankly having issues with the extender freezing up, apparently from network issues over a wired 1Gb network (unmamaged 1gb switches). At the same time I've been having some droputs on my Roku running wireless but only 8 feet from my Netgear N router.

The router seems to be the common culprit here, although that's admittedly speculation. But it's causing WAF issues, particularly as I attempt the switch to HTPC and extenders. So... What's our current flavor of preference for reliable routers that can handle a fair amount of throughput?

I would frankly rather avoid having to change out the firmware if possible, although DDWRT or Tomato are not out of the question. And I don't want to go with another PC running dual network cards, etc. What I really want, frankly, is a rock solid router that can handle a 1 Gb wired network supporting an NAS and HTPC (the NAS doing mostly time machine backups and the HTPC streaming liva and recorded tv), a half dozen or so wireless devices at N speeds (mostly just ipad / iphone doing at most Pandora streaming), and my minimal HA - related traffic (mostly the Elk talking to the ISY and the HTPC, which also runs HomeSeer). And because I run my own company, I often have limited free time to manage and "fiddle" with something as critical as a router. I've heard some decent things about ASUS, but any other suggestions. Thanks in advance for those!

 

[drvnbysound]

Rock solid routers for cheap:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=2851&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC2.A0.XCisco+2851+&_nkw=Cisco+2851+&_sacat=0
 
Although, you'd probably have to find the Gigabyte switch module(s) separately...

 

[pete_c]

Yup here would also recommend a higher end SOHO or commercial box.
 
Wireless is wireless is wireless as you cannot typically control RF propagation; it is what it is.  You can make it better but not perfect.  Gb wireless is already for sale; but its still sharing one fast wireless pipe.
 
IE: wireless 802.11A=>802.11B=>802.11G=>802.11N=>802.11AC=>802.11AD=802.11AH
 
That said typically many folks get combo boxes; IE: "router"; but its not just a router; rather its a multifunctional "do what"; combining a switch, router, wireless access point, firewall and even today a modem.  The multifunctional device is typically referred to as a "router".
 
Here relating to routing / firewall (and a bit more) I have personally used software on a little box with two or more network interfaces. Tiny thing running off flash memory.  It still runs what the little embedded boxes run and still uses Linux as a base but its using a faster CPU and more built memory than an embedded box typically has.
 
Never breaks and always could handle what it was presented with from the internet and from the internal network.
 
The newest Motorola Docsis 3.X modem has now a Gb port on it.  Note that its referred to as a modem.  It is actually a router too.  Today I see mine getting a IPV6 DHCP and an IPV4 DHCP address.  It talks to the internet on 8 bonded channels at the same time.  This device plugs into my broadband cable. BTW I would recommend an update to Docsis 3.X if you are still at Docsis 2.X.
 
The Motorola modem plugs into the PFSense software in a box Gb port (WAN port).  The PFSense combo router and firewall distributes the network via one or more Gb network interfaces (managed and unmanaged today).
 
I know I am writing more than you want to read.  Simply put; your mentioned bottlenecks can be alleviated some; more so by managing/changing your internal network transport.  Your NAS box on a Gb network will provide way better HD streaming than your modem to the internet; mostly though because you typically do not have a Gb point of entry to the internet.
 
Your "router" / modem "pipe" to the internet is a fixed size.  You can upgrade the "size" of the pipe if you want requesting an upgrade from your internet service provider.

 

[wuench]

The ASUS routers are good, I have an RTN16 (w/DDWRT) and it handles my bluray traffic without issues. They make some new 802.11ac routers I have had my eye on (that also run DDWRT). You don't have to put DDWRT on if you don't like the features.

Like Pete says it is hard to know where your problem lies without isolating it. I wouldn't rule out your unmanaged/dumb switches. Just because they are gigabit doesn't mean they have the buffer space to stream video.

I do have one concern about you mentioning dual NIC PC's. I hope those are not being put on the same network. You can't do that unless you are using port-channels which a dumb switch won't provide. That is the same thing as having a duplicate IP address and will cause you weird issues.

My current network consists of Cisco SG300-10 switches, ASUS RTN16 Router and Netgear ReadyNAS 1100. I have no issues with streaming bluray ISO to XBMC and Boxee. It took some troubleshooting to get here, I run Cacti on a server to pull bandwidth and error stats via SNMP. I had to go through a couple of different switches to find ones that could handle it, and I had to keep my Boxee locked into an older firmware.
 
There was also some registry tweaking needed on my HTPC with Windows7 to prevent throttling (love that MS throttles our networks by default to 10pps, fn geniuses, only took me a couple of weeks to find that one weeding through all kinds of misdirection on the web).  Multimedia traffic in this case being defined as MS multimedia programs.

 

[JonW]

Check out the Ubiquiti line of routers.  Their Edge Router Lite is an incredible little piece of hardware.  I'm using one each for my office and home.  All router ports are gigabit and it can do full packet switching (NAT) at that speed.

 

[signal15]

I've got a Juniper SRX 210, and it's a great little box.

 

[linuxha]

I've got a Juniper SRX 210, and it's a great little box.

I like the SRX210 but the IPv6 code I do not (it's in the experimental branch for DHCPv6-PD). Otherwise it was a powerful box when it came out.

 

[MobileMe]

I was having the same kind of problems with my netgear.  I finally went with an ASUS RT-N66U for my home network.  I just run the stock firmware, but you can get DD-WRT if you need greater control.  Although I paid $50 more for it earlier this year.  So far I have not had any issues with it and it's a good price for the performance.  It does run a little hot, so I hacked a 5 volt case fan into a usb cable then plugged it into one of the usb ports and put it underneath the router.  That made a big difference. 
 
I would recommend you keep a close eye on any unmanaged switches you have too.  Sometimes those things can bork up a network.  When in doubt, unplug everything and slowly add devices until you find the culprit.  If your as busy as I am it can take a few days, but some devices take a while to show signs of failure. 
 
Try not to chain to many devices in your network.  It can cost more, but makes troubleshooting a lot easier. 

 

[fcwilt]

I use SonicWall. The have a complete line from entry level home units on up to enterprise class gear.

 

[giesen]

Look also at Mikrotik. They probably have the best bang for the buck, and while I wouldn't class them with Cisco or Juniper gear, are ware above your typical consumer dreck.

 

[Madcodger]

All,

Many excellent suggestions, and all greatly appreciated. One excellent point that I need to check before changing routers is the role of unmanaged switches in all this. Will work on that this week.

One question, though: If there is no unmanaged switch between the FIOS modem and the router (that also has the wireless Access Point built into it, as is common with consumer products), could those switches be contributing to problems on wireless devices? In other words, if the switches (two) are each plugged into one of the ports of the combined router / AP, but that router / AP box is serving all the wireless, is it likely those switches are contributing to wireless drops, or not so likely?

I have very little knowledge of networks, I must confess. Thank you for your ideas and suggestions!

 

[pete_c]

I totally redid the Verizon FIOS provided combination box.  Its been a few years but I don't think it had Gb ports on it. I just bridged one port on it and took it to my DD-WRT combo firewall box such that I do not utilize any of its functions (firewall or wireless access point) in one house.  That and I moved the DD-WRT combo AP/Switch box up a bit higher and closer to the ceiling in the wiring closet.  So yes it could be causing an issue depending where it is installed.
 
House #2 = = > Verizon Fios Box = = > (wireless is disabled) (note the FIOS router doesn't use Docsis anything).
Have a quick read here:
 
http://www.marco.org/2011/01/15/how-to-use-your-own-router-with-fios
 
A - directly connected to STB's
B - one network port is bridged to = = > WAN port of DD-WRT combo router, firewall, switch and AP.
 
I left the STB's connected via the MOCA cable connections in place and bridged one port.  Your fiber connection is fast depending on what plan you have with Verizon.   I left it at the basic combination of TV, Internet and phone; currently paying some $150 or so per month whichis too much.
 
The FIOS offered internet speed plans are:
 
15/5, 50/25, 75/35, 150/65, 300/65 and 500/100.  Not sure what the pricing is on the tiers.  Most currently offered triple play is some $79 for the basic.  If you get rid of the STBs and Phone service doing your own stuff you can balance it out with a higher speed tier.  Start with the connection to the internet; then move in baby steps providing speed to internal devices.
 
Fix/update - baby steps  = = > Fiber to ethernet such that you can get the fastest from your ISP (such that your FIOS fiber connection goes to Gb ethernet first).
 
Simple set up here.  The Linksys DD-WRT radio failed this past summer after a few years; replaced it and all is well.  Not working very hard. I had FIOS installed over 4-5 years ago and do not think the combo box is using Gb.
 
I have one Patriot NMT connected via a 100Mb link directly to the DD-WRT box and it has no issues streaming internet content that I can tell.  Its old now though and still running fine being on 24/7 now for the last two years with a 1Tb drive in it.
 
I'm guessing you can upgrade you current combination Verizon box with a newer combination modem.  I would then take Gb port to a firewall with a Gb port the to a managed switch.  I would also install a dedicated wireless access point.  Personally I like the Ubiquiti POE powered access points.
 
FIOS combination box = = > bridge one Gb port = = > firewall/router (here I utilize PFSense) = = > managed 24 port Gb switch = = > dedicated POE Access point.
 
House #1 ===> Motorola D 3.0 modem = = > Gb in == > Firewall/router PFSense = = > Gb out  (configured for multiple networks inside and outside) = = > managed gb switches = = > POE connected wireless AP (Ubiquti).
 
House #1 though is a bit different as the POE enabled AP is on a different physical LAN (not VLAN) connected to the PFSense firewall.
 
I do not use any wireless though in either home for multimedia stuff.  IE: today using XBMC devices directly connected via HDMI to TV's and connected to the managed Gb switches.  The "back end" today is NAS, MythTV (for live TV) and PlayonTV all on the Gb managed switch. Streaming live internet content is direct to XBMC boxes or indirect via back end boxes. 
 
I have two HDHomerun boxes configured.  One for cable and one for OTA.  I also have satellite.
 
That said I am phasing out the cable HDHomerun box as it will be disfunctional in the next couple of years; so sort of sticking to OTA HD broadcast recording for a bit.  That and I do not watch regular TV anyways (never did) sticking to mostly watching movies.  Lately been watching Star Trek Generations on Hulu from the first time it was on TV as I never did see it (busy with life at the time?).  Wife uses the satellite DVR (used to be Tivo) and records and watches all recorded shows only.  Baby steps here showing wife how to record stuff with XBMC PVR versus DTV PVR...very slow going here though.
 
I can stream HD live TV wirelessly via wireless laptops and tablets OK but not great. 
 
In a quickie synopsis; thinking you might have issues relating to streaming multimedia content via wireless plus the use of unmanaged switches might contribute to those same issues.  While checking note that your wireless connectivity is a bottleneck because you share it with multiple devices.  Streaming HD multimedia on wireless will take up the whole pipe and its not really a big pipe.
 
BTW - big money lobbying is starting to change the base FCC stuff or reception of HD content anyways.  CC is phasing out the use of cable cards in the next couple of years anyways.  Initially they have already completed initial steps by encrypting local television stations.  In Chicago we have some 60 or so free OTA HD stations available.  That and there is already some 20 encrypted OTA stations broadcasting.  Way back when OTA broadcasters were "pushed" to spend monies on updating to HD; broadcasters allotted multiple channels such that they could make monies from private PPV OTA stuff which is starting to happen. 

 

[MobileMe]

All, Many excellent suggestions, and all greatly appreciated. One excellent point that I need to check before changing routers is the role of unmanaged switches in all this. Will work on that this week. One question, though: If there is no unmanaged switch between the FIOS modem and the router (that also has the wireless Access Point built into it, as is common with consumer products), could those switches be contributing to problems on wireless devices? In other words, if the switches (two) are each plugged into one of the ports of the combined router / AP, but that router / AP box is serving all the wireless, is it likely those switches are contributing to wireless drops, or not so likely? I have very little knowledge of networks, I must confess. Thank you for your ideas and suggestions!

 
It is most certainly possible.  If an unmanaged switch is corrupting network traffic, it can cause the wireless device to drop out.  Some wireless devices do that to try to fix corrupted network packets.  Although in my experience, I have only seen that happen a handful of times.  9 times out of 10 its the wireless access point. 
 
A good way to test an unmanaged switch is to isolate it from the network.  Plug two pc's into it and use a lan speed test to test packet flow.  If you get any errors and/or latency you might have a bad switch.  To rule out the devices(pc's), use a crossover between the two and run the same test as a baseline.  Run the test several times and record the results of each run.  In this case, you are more likely to find packet errors.

 

[signal15]

I like the SRX210 but the IPv6 code I do not (it's in the experimental branch for DHCPv6-PD). Otherwise it was a powerful box when it came out.

 
Supposedly a lot of this has been fixed in the X44 train, but I haven't tried it yet.  I noticed that if you do an IP-IP tunnel with IPV6, that the security policy will NOT apply to the IPv6 traffic.  I've got the standard security policy for my IPv4 traffic, and I'm using firewall filters applied to the interfaces for IPv6 right now.  It's a pain in the butt.
 
My ISP is now IPv6 capable, so once I switch from Hurricane Electric for IPv6 to my ISP, I will be able to use security policy for all traffic.

 

[Madcodger]

Gents, you continue to amaze me with your knowledge and ideas. Much to try over the holiday week...

I do have the Fios box out of the equation (I think) as I use their router only to talk to the current STBs over coax (subbed off the main router). Routing is done with a Netgear WNDR3700v3 (as I recall that's the model), a fairly new N / gigabit router. The more I look at it, the more I think it's my switches...

Running 75/35 Fios, Pete, which I think is enough for me. Bottleneck is inside the house, I'm almost sure.

More on this over the weekend... Christmas today and we're hosting dinner, and my surprise B-Day party tomorrow (must act surprised - a niece spilled the beans). Then a week of mostly geek play for me. Very excited by all of it!

Thanks again, gents.

Joe