Russound Sphere RNET Multiroom System

[twilo123]

back when i checked it out the sphere was a lifeware unit integrated with support for russound products. not sure if that has changed. i definitely don't see it taking away from the cav line which can be argued is russound's bread and butter. the holdup so long on the release was more on lifeware's end than russound from what i remember.

 

[pkoslow]

Paul - what are your impressions on the Sphere system, now that it's been out a while?

The Sphere equipment is very nice and is the easy choice when budget allows.

Programming is very flexible compared to the older CAM/CAV controllers and the keypads are a nice improvement.

 

[pkoslow]

I saw some numbers online today - I'll look for them again. Was on work PC.

Edit - I can only find MSRP, from press releases.

Russound: "Both the ACA-E5 and the KLK-E5 will ship in Q4 2007, at $5650.00 and $599.00 MAP, respectively."

Dated, yes. I bet they haven't sold one in a month or 2.

MAP pricing for the KT1-E5 kit with AVA-E5 contoller and six KLK-E5 keypads is $9300. Additional keypads are $599 (plasma friendly keypad $799). The satellite radio modules are $649, AM/FM module $149 and A-Bus module $599.

 

[pkoslow]

I'm tempted to become a pro installer, to get access to additional stuff. And distributor pricing.

When one applies for an account at a local distributor, what do they look for? Is there a law of some sort that you have to be a professional to get good pricing?

I'll hang up a sign in front of my house, run some local ads. Maybe I can practice in other peoples' houses, in prep for mine.

This may vary from distributor to distributor, but most distributors will require that you at least have a valid state resellers certificate and a valid local business license & Tax ID. With these you can probably get basic accounts with some (but not all) distributors. There will be a small annual fee for the local business license, but once you have this and the state resellers certificate you're now on the hook to report your sales, pay quarterly sales tax, pay quarterly estimated income tax, etc.

From what I understand, having business related income usually increases your chance for a federal income tax audit. On the flip side, filling as a business with no or little income can also raise a red flag if you're taking business deductions but not generating any revenue.

 

[pkoslow]

Sphere integrator and installer certification costs $400. The guys at remotecentral generally don't like this additional fee, but they don't realize it's done a lot to protect the line from internet resellers. Installation/sales control is back at Russound HQ, rather than in the hands of the integrators.

I think the Sphere certification was only $400 and the required testing wasn't difficult, but the requirements to be considered for the Sphere program (and to qualify for higher-end lines from other manufacturers as well) is the bigger picture that you're overlooking.

To become a Sphere dealer you have to hold proper business and reseller licenses as well as be licensed in your state for low voltage (if required) and also be a member of a trade organization such as CEDIA.

I'm my case, this requires a CA state contractors license which requires 2-4 years of verified experience, passing a few tests, paying a few fees, security/background checks, fingerprinting, etc. I think the process took 3-4 months start to finish when I did it around 4 years ago and probably cost around $1k by the time everything was done. With the state contractors license comes additional recurring fees/dues and also the requirement to hold a minimum $1M performance bond and minimum $1M of liability insurance.

CEDIA membership is more fees & dues. I think the testing & membership was around $700-900 for the first year and then ongoing training/testing that you have to pay for is required to maintain your membership (along with annual dues).

California may have more regulation than many other areas, but no matter where you are the cost of running a legitimate business is very high...

 

[pkoslow]

Which party cares about hardware being kept away from internet discounters?

1) Russound determines the factory price, so they don't lose anything
2) Installers can usually get it direct from distributor or manufacturer at comparable price to discounters so they don't lose.
3) Customers get it cheaper either through DIY or through trickle-down effects.

As I see it the only losers here are the "authorized distributors" who now have competition and the dishonest installers who charge for ridiculous hardware markups(without calling them 100%+ markups) when the true charge is really for their labor. In the end the customer wins, the factory sells more product, and the dishonest installers are washed out.

I agree with that..........

Russound actually does loose with internet discounters because most (but not all) internet discounters are just moving boxes and have very little (or no) experience with the systems they are selling. Because of this, Russound is burdened with the support of people who purchase on-line and then need assistance with installation because the place of purchase is unable or unwilling to assist.

This is the main reason that Russound and many other manufacturers don't honor warranty on products purchased on-line through unauthorized sources. Manufacturers rely on their authorized dealers and distributors to be the first line of support with end-users. When end-users purchase these products through a shopping cart on a website, there's often no relationship with the seller so if there is an issue with the equipment or even just questions about install & config, it's usually the manufacturer that gets the call.

The type of DIY that hangs out here on Cocoontech, at AVS, or at Remote Central are generally much more knowledgeable and tend to research the products and capabilities and are generally capable of installing these systems. Keep in mind that this isn't the norm and that most end users buying a Russound system on-line won't have done their homework and will need help with it.

 

[pkoslow]

For those of you looking for a "Sphere" like Russound system that you'll be able to purchase and install as a DIY, the new C-Series controller and keypads are due out soon.

This system is 8-Source, 8-Zone and has keypads that are simiar to the Sphere keypads. From what I understand the config software will be a fee download.

The C-Series is a nice step up from the existing CAV/CAM and has many of the source & zone linking features of the Sphere controller. It's four less sources & zones tahn Sphere, but also a lot more affordable... pricing should be approx. ~20% more than CAV/CAM.

http://www.russound.com/cseries_system.htm

 

[Neurorad]

Thanks for the tip on the C-Series. I have been dismissing the press releases/emails, thinking it was the Collage.

Wow. I need to look into this C-Series.

The Sphere COULD be done DIY, if I can move some planets or stars into alignment, but it will be a big hassle.

I wish Russound had something like Nuvo's Music Port. Some day, soon. CasaTunes (or Russound 'media server') until then.

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[icellama21]

Russound actually does loose with internet discounters because most (but not all) internet discounters are just moving boxes and have very little (or no) experience with the systems they are selling. Because of this, Russound is burdened with the support of people who purchase on-line and then need assistance with installation because the place of purchase is unable or unwilling to assist.

This is the main reason that Russound and many other manufacturers don't honor warranty on products purchased on-line through unauthorized sources. Manufacturers rely on their authorized dealers and distributors to be the first line of support with end-users. When end-users purchase these products through a shopping cart on a website, there's often no relationship with the seller so if there is an issue with the equipment or even just questions about install & config, it's usually the manufacturer that gets the call.

The type of DIY that hangs out here on Cocoontech, at AVS, or at Remote Central are generally much more knowledgeable and tend to research the products and capabilities and are generally capable of installing these systems. Keep in mind that this isn't the norm and that most end users buying a Russound system on-line won't have done their homework and will need help with it.

Hmm, I wonder if any hardware manufacturer has explored a CQC-like sales model. Offering a DIY product with no support directly and then a higher-priced integrated solution installed by a local installer. Most people would happily pay the integrated price from the manufacturer(far easier than getting bids from local dealers for a small job) and the DIY could get the product with a clear understanding of the kind of support to expect.

 

[Neurorad]

Similar to the Elk.

However, I think CQC and Elk online support is fantastic, though I don't have experience with their professional installer tech support for comparison. For the pros, Spanky probably shows up personally to help, with a bottle of wine in hand.

 

[icellama21]

Similar to the Elk.

However, I think CQC and Elk online support is fantastic, though I don't have experience with their professional installer tech support for comparison. For the pros, Spanky probably shows up personally to help, with a bottle of wine in hand.

Exactly. The beauty of companies like CQC and Elk is that they allow their products to be easily pushed/marketed both by customers and installers. Whether this is actually succeeding I cannot comment. I see only business benefits for a company that can give pro installers a reason to sell the product AND give customers a reason to be excited about it and suggest it(whether or not they install it themselves). Forcing all customers to pay someone every time they move a speaker does not make any sense, creating an ecosystem to build a relationship between integrators and customers does.

 

[Neurorad]

Paul-

Thanks again for the C-Series info.

I'm having second thoughts about paying extra for distributed video. The C-Series/CAV lines are pretty slick, but it's overkill for me. I want distributed audio, hardwired, with metadata at the keypads, and access to my PC digital library. To get metadata with Russound, I'll have to invest a chunk of change in one of the SMC server units - $$$$.

I read through the SMC install manual last night - it's a HTPC, much more than I need for distributed audio.

I know Russound has good intentions, but these SMC's don't seem like a good idea, from a corporate standpoint. Distributed video from a HTPC just isn't 'there' yet, for the consumer. For the computer-savvy DIY'er, there are many options, and it won't be a $5K HTPC.

There is free DIY software available online, CAV66.exe, authored by hyslopc on AVS, that passes metadata to the keypad, when used with J. River Media Center. Any hint that Russound will offer something similar? I guess they'd be shooting themselves in the foot - they wouldn't sell any SMC's.

I'll be researching CasaTunes, to see what they offer.

 

[pkoslow]

The CAV does have composite video routing, but with today's HD sources, it's not that useful. The CAM6.6/CAV6., C-Series and even the E-Series Sphere products all the require the additional VM1 video switch to handle routing of HD (component video) sources.

For digital media including MP3, internet radio & photo slide show Russound has the SMS Smart Media Servers which are still expensive compared to software based solutions, but much less than the SMC.

I haven't tried the free app from AVS that integrated with JRMC, but do have several installations running CasaTunes which works well and is inexpensive and provides a nice PC interface.