Security system noob

[neillt]

If you are going with HAI then don't forget to also pick up a copy of the dealer version of PC Access, which is used for programming.  It's HAI part 1105W.
 
You included Automation Studio, part 1126, which is only used to set up their touch screens.
 
I wish they would just unify all the damn software, but there are 3 major setup packages:
 
PC Access - For programming the base panel, automation code, etc
Automation Studio - For designing touchscreen layouts and functionality
Mobile Designer - For iPad / iPhone touchpad design when using the Home Theater Extender

 

[Neurorad]

I don't know how the HiFi2 works - but you'll need an MPS4 for content, to the Nuvo GC.  MPS4 is a music server, provides 4 sources (networked music files, internet radio from Pandora, Sirius/XM, Rhapsody, last.fm, RadioTime (streamed AM/FM stations including most locals), Spotify, and Amazon Cloud service.  The Nuvo AM/FM tuner is rarely needed; if your favorite local station isn't streamed via RadioTime, you can use an old AVR as 1 source (6 available, with the Nuvo GC).

 

[abernut]

Thanks everyone.
Are the items I have marked in Bold all I need to get the basic security system up and running.  I will focus on Automation and Audio later.
 
Mike

 

[neillt]

OK... but while you technically don't need PC Access to get the security side set up, doing all of the programming through the keypad will drive you absolutely insane.  Do yourself a favor and get it.

 

[abernut]

OK... but while you technically don't need PC Access to get the security side set up, doing all of the programming through the keypad will drive you absolutely insane.  Do yourself a favor and get it.

 
Will do.
 
Can groups of sensors be grouped into zones.  
I am going to run a sensor for every window and door.  I believe each of these sensors then terminates back at the controller.  
 
Will I be able to make "virtual" zones, ie... 
Zone 3 (Garage door, Garage Windows, and Garage Entrance)
 
I was also curious is it really necessarily to run a sensor to every door and window if Motion sensors provide complete coverage.

 

[vegasvinnie]

Will do.
 
Can groups of sensors be grouped into zones.  
I am going to run a sensor for every window and door.  I believe each of these sensors then terminates back at the controller.  
 
Will I be able to make "virtual" zones, ie... 
Zone 3 (Garage door, Garage Windows, and Garage Entrance)
 
I was also curious is it really necessarily to run a sensor to every door and window if Motion sensors provide complete coverage.

I'm not one to tell people to do their own work if it will save them money. The first thing to remember is that if you really don't know what your doing then going to someone that does would be recommended. I have worked in the security business for 14 years and can tell you that I have seen many people wire their houses incorrectly due to lack of knowledge. My favorite alarm panels are DSC and Ademco. As far as your question about the need for motion detectors. Motion detectors are important because they operate when your not home. When you are home the motion detectors are off and then you will be relying on the windows and doors being covered. If you need programming assistance the go to panelguides.com and you should be able to find programming manuals for most panels out there. If you have any questions you can email me at [email protected]

 

[newalarm]

Hey Abernut, Have you gotten anywhere on your install? send us an update.

 

[tmbrown97]

abernut - you can group like zones - like if you have a room with 3 windows, you can group them - but the door should be separate.  
 
As far as whether to include sensors on every door/window, yes - get them all!  When would you rather stop an intruder - when they open the window before they ever get in, or while they're standing in your livingroom?  If you're home and they panic, they may hurt you or a family member; even if they don't, if that alarm goes off and they're already inside, they're probably going to at least grab the laptop or the camera that's sitting in plain view before making a hasty escape, possibly causing more damage.
 
Motions are a last line of defense - only to be used when all others fail - not to be relied upon like a perimeter sensor.  You want to catch and discourage the intruder the very first chance you get.

 

[abernut]

Hey everyone.
I spent last night reading the OmniPro ii Installation manual.  After I finished I realized it was from 2006.  The newest one I can find is from 2009.
 
I guess the best place to start is to show you my current plan for where I "think" I need to install sensors.
 

 

 

 
 
I am also still a little confused about the pros and cons of 2 wire and 4 wire smokes.  2 Wires seem easier because I do not have to worry about a relay.  I have also read where two wired do not have attached sirens, but is that really an issue since there will be interior sirens.  I also read where 2 wire smokes are limited to zones 1-4 but 4 wire smokes can be used anywhere.
 
Once you guys sign off on my sensor placement I will get into the more technical questions I have  ^_^

 

[newalarm]

Looks good. You have a lot of motions. you could probably cut down, and place them in key areas such as corridors and other areas thieves would need to walk through. i agree that put as many door window sensors as possible. We also placed a few on interior doors since we were looking at renting part of the house. Though we did not do so on upstairs windows. Look at the type of windows they will install. Some have thin edges, making it difficult to drill into to do recessed.
 
Also, pay attention to your loads. You have many motions and they take up a good amount of power. So do strobes.
 
Have you looked at water leak detectors? If not, run four wires for those.
 
Smokes in garage is not recommended, but i have done it. They can trip with temperature variations and other smoke due to exhaust, or if you work with tools (wood work or welding). Thermal sensors with Rate or rise ROR are recommended.
 
For smokes, run 4 wire, but 2 wire is easier. I regretted doing 4 wire. I had hopped to have zones for smokes but it is not recommended due to resetting of the smokes. Make sure you get the ones recommended by alarm panel (see manual).
 
Did you buy your system yet?

 

[abernut]

Looks good. You have a lot of motions. you could probably cut down, and place them in key areas such as corridors and other areas thieves would need to walk through. i agree that put as many door window sensors as possible. We also placed a few on interior doors since we were looking at renting part of the house. Though we did not do so on upstairs windows. Look at the type of windows they will install. Some have thin edges, making it difficult to drill into to do recessed.

I am also planning for future automation. Not sure if I will ever use that many motions but from everything I have read they say now is the time to run all the wire you can foresee using.
 

Also, pay attention to your loads. You have many motions and they take up a good amount of power. So do strobes.

Should I use an expansion board, maybe one upstairs. I am not sure on the specs (Does that help split the load on the main controller)

Have you looked at water leak detectors? If not, run four wires for those.

Yes, I have one labeled in the down stairs laundry room. Where are the typical places they are installed?

Smokes in garage is not recommended, but i have done it. They can trip with temperature variations and other smoke due to exhaust, or if you work with tools (wood work or welding). Thermal sensors with Rate or rise ROR are recommended.

Thanks, I will change to thermal sensors. I do plan on doing a lot of welding on my old jeep when the dust settles after the build
 

For smokes, run 4 wire, but 2 wire is easier. I regretted doing 4 wire. I had hopped to have zones for smokes but it is not recommended due to resetting of the smokes. Make sure you get the ones recommended by alarm panel (see manual).

This is still where I am a bit fuzzy. Should every smoke be on its own zone that way you know exactly which smoke was tripped? If that is the case I will have to use 4 wire correct?

Did you buy your system yet?

Not yet. The plan is to plan for a total home security/automation/AV system. This way I can run all the required wire while the walls are open (Security, LAN, A/V). I am only going to purchase what is needed for security in the beginning and upgrade as we save $$

As always thanks for your help.

 

[newalarm]

You can't (or shouldn't) put smokes on individual zones I was told. Do a search and you will find much material. But I think you probably don't need to. You can add additional thermals and that would give you exact location in a critical area, those can be individually zoned, or on the smoke circuit.
 
There is a really nice unit for leaks, the 2600 i think that is four wire and uses little energy. People put them everywhere they can. the more the better. Problem with leaks, you need to place sensors strategically.

 

[abernut]

You can't (or shouldn't) put smokes on individual zones I was told. Do a search and you will find much material. But I think you probably don't need to. You can add additional thermals and that would give you exact location in a critical area, those can be individually zoned, or on the smoke circuit.

In that case is there any benefit to running 4 wire smokes?
I can just have 2 zones using the 2 wire smokes:
1- Upstairs
2- Downstairs

 

[newalarm]

I would run 4 wires for smokes just in case technology changes in the future (addressable smoke detectors). It never hurts to run extra. You can pick up red fire wire at HD. And you can only use 1 zone on a 2 wire system on Elk panel. Zone 16 is reserved for this.
 
I would REALLY recommend spending a whole lot of time pouring over all the documentation of all devices you intend on buying and installing, and looking carefully at what the mounting requirements are. I am speaking from experience here making some mistakes after drywall went up, and having to move things around is a lot harder.
 
If you install an expansion board, don't forget about power. you will need to run a wire up to that box to power the devices. I installed one in our detached garage, but added a p212s in the main box, and ran a 2/18 wire to the garage. I like the expansion board since it allows for shorter runs. Otherwise, you need to home run everything to Control.
 
Again, calculate your loads because you will quickly go above capacity of control (1amp i think). You will probably need additional/bigger battery too.
 
Before you finalize install, look at the elk catalog and see what else you may want to do. Doing access control is a neat idea to allow you to remotely open your doors/gates, for example.

 

[pete_c]

I installed 4-wire smokes with my HAI OPII panel.  PITA.  Water (leak) detectors and currently planning on a couple of water valves. 
 
Yup; even if you do not utilize the wires today; you may want to add more tomorrow. 
 
Just noticed today that the PIR in the garage was "stuck" in the "no motion" / no blinking LED mode since the last Thunderstorm we had a couple of days ago.
 
I removed the power and connected it and its working fine now  This is the first time I have seen this with a PIR.