Smarthome 1132CU weirdness question

[Xymox]

I got a tad overboard in sophistication in doing some programming using a 1132CU and Smarthome Manager Pro and ran into a problem maybe someone can help me with.

First I cannot afford Homeseer and the Smarthome Manager does what I need.

I created a sequence with a number of timed events. In these timed events are conditionals based on the state of a "phantom" generic X-10 appliance module.

The Idea is I have a non existant appliance module that acts as a memory/flag that has a "home / away" status. IE if its ON then im home and if its off im not home. The idea is to do things differently when im home.

This seems to work and the status of the phantom module is kept in the 1132CU memory and I can use it as a conditional flag.

So my sequence goes like this.

If day = mon - fri
--if between midnight and 3:30am
-----If the phantom-a module shows im here
--------If phantom-b module is also on
----------Event
--If between 3:30am and 5:30am
------If the phantom module shows im here
---------If another phantom module is on
-----------event

.......

I have a number of these steps

I have another whole set for weekends


I then call this sequence from time triggered events like they were a subroutine and I call the sequence at various other times from extrenally triggered events.

Its essentially a subroutine with conditional steps based on time and on the phantom module state.

So all this works fine... Except....

I noticed something weird happens now. If I look at my logging and press buttons on a controller the 1132CU does not see the whole command set on the first press of a button.

I press a "D1 - OFF" the log and 1132CU only see "D1"
When I press it a second time the controller sees the whole D1-OFF command and acts on it.

This happens over and over.

First press the 1132CU only sees the D1
Second press it sees D1-OFF
third press D1
forth press D1-off
fifth press D1
sixth press D1-off

You can see this in the logging.

You can wait a long time between presses and it makes no difference.

VERY weird. Very consistent too. From every controller.

If I remove the conditionals from the sequence everything is OK again.

What are the limitations in branching and lengths of conditionals and depth of recurvise conditional checks ? Have I exceeded something.

I realize im asking a lot of a little 1132CU

I put the program in question up on my server for download if anyone wants to look it over or test it.

http://www.xymox1.com/powerlincprob.ZIP

 

[Xymox]

Update..

subtracting conditional stuff in my sequence will reach a point where it will work correctly every time, one extra conditional or any kind anywhere in the sequence will cause the problem to reappear.

Strangely adding conditionals to the main program rather then the sequence -does not- cause the problem. Just adding them to the sequence.

Continuing to add conditionals beyond the original point where it gets weird will reach a point where it will never see the second half of any command. It will see D1 but never the OFF.

So there are some limits in what you can do with a 1132CU that I can't find any documentation on. I have posted this same post at Smarthome with no response from anyone there yet.

Does anyone know if the 2414U does X10 commands - its no where in the description. If so, then does it have the same limitations I describe above.

 

[BLH]

Yes the 2414U 2414S and 2814U will do X10 commands. Problem is not much software will download to them and require a computer 24/7 to do such things.
KenMs InHomeFree will do simple downloads to them and I use it for simple timed events on a 2814U.
http://users.adelphia.net/~krmiller/PublicInsteon/

http://ux5490.us/Insteon/index.htm
Is another place to find good programs for the Insteon PLCs

 

[Xymox]

Is it just me, or is that, well stupid. If you can download a program into a 1132CU why would a more advanced 2414 not do that ???

Yea, I understand if you hook them to a controller you get far more functionality...

But I don't need a Crestron Pro2 connected to my 2414S. SURE that would do it all right. No need for a computer. 100% reliability assuming the 2414S worked perfectly. BUT I DON'T WANT TO SPEND $2000.

Back to my original question.

Thank you BLH for your insight and help.

Does anyone have any suggestions and experience programming for the 1132CU. These things must sell like crazy and people must use them.

What i really want is a clear manual that includes limitations.

I have now noticed that as you write more code and stuff it into the 1132 you can see when you place a D1-ON command on the power line and it receives it the light on the side flickers more slowly. With no code in the unit you get 2 clear flickers, one for the D1 and one for the "OFF". As you add more code you reach a point when the first longer flicker "D1" hasn't finished being processed by the 1132CU when the second X10 command set comes along on the power line, "ON", and clearly the 1132CU misses it because it has not finished processing the "D1" yet. The space between the flickers becomes shorter and shorter with more code in the 1132CU until there is no gap and then it starts missing commands.

Other things slow this processing down too.

If your running a timed set of steps - like a sprinkler system would - its ability to process incoming commands is diminished. Im not sure how much exactly.

Now I need to point out that so far it seems to always process its own commands perfectly. Its external triggers that get missed.

I suppose I could trigger off just the D1. I know I can do that, it says so. I suppose it would be more robust in any case.

Anyone with experience with this mess let me know.

 

[Xymox]

Triggering off just the D1 does not work for me as most of my controllers will send the whole D1-OFF and the 1132CU once it sees the D1 spits out the first command that was triggered right on top of the "OFF" from the controller.

So this does not work. If I could send only a D1 this would work but as I said my controllers send out a D1-OFF.

 

[BLH]

Smarthomes software isn't able to download to the PLC yet and was just released yesterday. I was one of the Beta Houselinc desktop testers and downloading is planed for the future.
If you are not doing complex [yes I know you are] events KenMs program will download both Insteon and X10 timers to the PLC and they do work. I have them in one myself. I did update the Timercoreapp to V12 as the earlier version didn't keep good time as it didn't resync with the RTC everyday. I believe other third party porgrams will also. Of course Smarthome does have their Free Smarthome Timers Essentials that also will download simple times to the PLC.

 

[KenM]

Xymox,

I used a 1132CUP for two years with the SH software. I understand your questions but can offer up no real answers.

I always had trouble when running macros that were nested and/or used time as a condition. I was never able to find a good reference as to the limititations of the macro nesting. I did a lot of 'trial and error' programming.

That drove me to the X10 CM15A and AHP which worked only slightly better. The hardware of the 1132CUP seemed more reliable, the SH software, slightly worse.

About October of 2005, Insteon started shipping PLCs that seemed to have promise as they advertised downloadable macro support. After about seven months of participating in the Insteon developer's forum, I figured out that SH has no plans to support the macro download capability of their new PLC, except on the lowest level.

That would mean a software developer would have to code in 'SALAD' which is assembly level code. That ain't going to happen. Any minor change in the firmware or hardware could erase months of programming progress. Even I am not stupid enough to buy into that idea.

I'm using Z-Wave now and can at least set timers to run with a battery operated controller and not need a dedicated PC. I now have switching devices that work.

It is a real shame that no one can create a simple macro programming interface for these HA devices that actually works. I have given up. I am hoping that some Z-Wave company will make one (for Z-Wave) eventually.

Ken

 

[az1324]

I figured out that SH has no plans to support the macro download capability of their new PLC, except on the lowest level.

They keep saying they are going to release a version of the houselinc software later this year that downloads to the plc. And it seems that they should be able to build off the software for the 1132. But they might not have even started coding this yet. It would be nice to have a nice linux based ARM controller. I would also consider running a fanless mini itx board that interfaces to the PLC or PLM as a good and pretty inexpensive solution.

 

[Xymox]

Wow...

Thanx Ken !

Ok then I will just deal with it. Its a cheap solution to HA and cheap works for me... I get what I pay for.

I was thinking...

Why are people using computers for HA ? Windows, Unix,,,,, its all the same its a PC.

In thinking through my problem I thought of a good solution.

Crestron connected to a 2414S. You don't need a computer. Works just like a 1132C completly standalone and off the hook programming capability. Uptime in years.

You can find a ST-CP ( discontinued ) on ebay for $150-$250.

- 2 RS232/485 ports. One would be used for the 2414, leaving one free.
- unlimited IR devices and control.
- Crestron RF gateway built in so you can use RF remotes or any of their touch panels
- Cresnet port to connect to a huge range of controllers that will control anything.
- Massive sophisticated programming ability
- Built in clock
- Uptime counted in years - no rebooting ever - extreme reliability - standalone

The only downside I can see is that does not have astrological time.

It can trigger off anything from the 2414 and send out anything through the 2414. This also means you can do anything in crestron with the various input/outputs based on Insteon or X10 triggers. Wanna send RS232 to something from a Insteon event ?

So for $300 including the 2414 you have a Insteon/X10/RS232/IR controller thats beyond anything even remotely close to that price, not to mention the programming capability is pretty much unmatched. Its stand alone, no computer needed. Its uptime is measured in years. Its like a 1132C times a million + Insteon and control of any other device.

http://www.crestron.com/products/show_prod...ump&model=ST-CP

In fact.... For $400-500 on ebay you can find MC2E's.

These babies are stunning and you guys need to go look.

Built in web server and email client. IR/RS232-485/Relays/Ethernet/SNMP/SSL/..
270 MIPS Powerful. Multi threaded/multi tasking. FAT 32 file system.
4 MB of flash for programs.

http://www.crestron.com/products/show_prod...jump&model=mc2e

The downside to all this is that the programming software is not available to the public. At any price. However most people selling Crestron might let you have the software. Its also not Joe Q Public friendly - its a real learning curve and Crestron will not help you and there is no programming manual.

Ive been a crestron programmer for many years. Like 10. So im all good with this solution.

I do not understand why people are using computers for HA. For a lot less then a computer you can get damn nice hardware that will do circles around any computer doing HA.

If you wanna spend money on the same level that you would on a computer then you get crazy stuff from Crestron. Like a Pro 2 which would exceed anything you could ever want to do. And then some.

http://www.crestron.com/products/show_prod...jump&model=pro2

So remember, you don't need to use touchpanels to control Crestron control systems. ANYTHING RS232 can control crestron. So a 2414S would interface perfectly and be like a 1132C on steroids.

So, if you want to make a HA system thats reliable and serious - don't use a PC. Use a dedicated hardware solution designed for HA.

Used ones are cheap.

So my plan is to wait for a killer deal on a ST-CP and buy a 2414S and I will be very happy. Easily under $300.