Somfy RTS Shade Control by Lutron Keypads (OmniPro or Somfi LTI)

[SHRemote]

This is a funky question, so please bear with me.
 
I'm building a new house.  All of the lighting will be controlled by Lutron RadioRa 2 dimmers, switches and keypads, probably Grafik-T.  I'm going to have Somfy RTS shades (about 40) throughout.  (I know I could hard wire the shades for control, but I think I want RTS).  
 
I'm going for as few "wall warts" as possible.  So, for the most part, the only visible controll on the walls will be the RR2 Grafik-T Keypads.  (Most of the RR2 dimmers and switches will be hidden.)  So, rather than using Somfy keypads to control the shades from a the wall (Somfy kepads don't match the Grafik-T look), I'm going to control the shades from the RR2 Grafik-T keypads as well.  One was to do this is by using a Somfy device, called the LTI controller.  It connects to the RR2 Main Repeater on one end and the Somfy URTSI's on the other; it "translates" RR2 keypad (phantom or real) button presses into Somfy instructions.
 
Another way to accomplish this would be through an OmniPro panel.  (I know, I know, Leviton is EOL'ing the OmniPro line.  I don't care.  I love OmniPro and I know how to program it.  I'm not particularly worried about the OmniPro crapping out on me for 20 years--at which point, I'll be too old to care anymore. In any event, I plan to buy a spare OmniPro main board.)  So, if use the OmniPro, I'd connect the RR2 Main Repeater to the OmniPro and connect the OmniPro to the URTSI's.  Then I'd program the OmniPro so that a RR2 button press will trigger a Somfy command.  IOW:  the OmniPro will be doing the same type of translation that the LTI would in the first scenario.
 
In fact, I suppose I could actually set it up both ways and choose one.  (This gets a little complicated because there is only one RS232 port on the RR2 Main Repeater to connect to either the LTI or the OmniPro.  So, I'd have to have a two Main Repeater system.)
 
So my question is:  Does anybody have experience with either (or both) of these solutions for controlling Somfy RTS shades?  What would you do?
 
 

 

[wkearney99]

I'm not a fan of panelizing and/or hiding dimmers.  Technology changes and deviating from "normal" wall switch setups ends up being a problem if/when you need to change lighting hardware.

If you have that many shades it makes me wonder how many lighting loads you'd have.  You might be wandering into Homeworks QS territory.  It would be advisable to at least talk with a local Homeworks integrator.  Sure, it's pricier but it does support a greater number of devices.  Grafik-T are interesting, but even more spendy that the usual Lutron costs. From what I understand QS has better support for doing fancier things with the buttons, like holding and multiple taps.

We have Hunter Douglas shades.  Shade control is... interesting to automate, especially if you have anything other than bottom/up shades.  Venetians, both opening honeycombs (top/down & the 'normal' bottom/up) and vertical blinds.  Regular shades can be a simple on/off/dimmer sort of device, but the others... get complicated to control with regular kinds of wall switches.  And even more 'interesting' with voice control. Think about remembering the names of 40 different shades!  We have just 13 and it's tedious.  We often fall back to using the phone app for them.  I tried using a Pico and the results are just not satisfying (they utterly fail the WAF) but this is because of the shade complexity and roller speed delays.

So I don't have an easy answer for you, but just some anecdotal sympathy for the challenge ahead.

 

[wkearney99]

And let me clarify about wall controls, we're all creatures of habit, and introducing high-tech "clean looking" solutions for how people expect to be able to use a simple thing like wall controls is asking for trouble.  We're conditioned to EXPECT a wall switch.  And that engaging the "obvious" feature on it will give us room illumination.  Start mucking around with that and you're off to a bad start.  Think not just about your own use, but that of your spouse, kids, guests, cleaning staff or emergency services personnel. 

I went with a design that starts with one paddle and one keypad for each room.  The paddle operates the "most obvious" lighting need.  The keypad handles the rest.  Note, a paddle might be a dimmer or a switch (utility rooms, etc). And for the keypad I've made the bottom-most button always provide an "all off" for the area.  For position where there's more than one paddle it scales out from the room/area entrance toward least used.  As in, nearest paddle is the dining room table light that hangs over it.  Next is the keypad with various scenes.  3rd are the recessed ceiling cans and 4th is a rope light in the crown molding.

 

[SHRemote]

I'm not a fan of panelizing and/or hiding dimmers.  Technology changes and deviating from "normal" wall switch setups ends up being a problem if/when you need to change lighting hardware.

If you have that many shades it makes me wonder how many lighting loads you'd have.  You might be wandering into Homeworks QS territory.  It would be advisable to at least talk with a local Homeworks integrator.  Sure, it's pricier but it does support a greater number of devices.  Grafik-T are interesting, but even more spendy that the usual Lutron costs. From what I understand QS has better support for doing fancier things with the buttons, like holding and multiple taps.

We have Hunter Douglas shades.  Shade control is... interesting to automate, especially if you have anything other than bottom/up shades.  Venetians, both opening honeycombs (top/down & the 'normal' bottom/up) and vertical blinds.  Regular shades can be a simple on/off/dimmer sort of device, but the others... get complicated to control with regular kinds of wall switches.  And even more 'interesting' with voice control. Think about remembering the names of 40 different shades!  We have just 13 and it's tedious.  We often fall back to using the phone app for them.  I tried using a Pico and the results are just not satisfying (they utterly fail the WAF) but this is because of the shade complexity and roller speed delays.

So I don't have an easy answer for you, but just some anecdotal sympathy for the challenge ahead.

 
For this home in particular, hiding the switches/dimmers is appropriate from an aesthetic standpoint.  I'm not too worried about changing tech.  RadioRA is admittedly a "mature" technology.  However, it has survived precisely because it is so robust, flexible and reliable.
 
With respect to lighting loads, I'm well within even a single Main Repeater RR2 system.  (Although I may go ahead an get my Level 2 training just to have some flexibility.)  The large number of shades is primarily due to having a facade of the home primarily made up of glass -- 60 feet of sliding doors (six 10' x 10' sections) with another 60 feet of clerestory above that (six 10' x 5' panels).  Every shade in the house is going to be identical - 3% Solar shades driven by 120v Sonese motors -- and most are identical in size.  No funky shades.  No honeycomb.  No skylight.  So Up-Stop-Down-Stop button function should work fine.  If I need more granular control, I'll use the app or the remotes.  But that will be rare.    
 
I've got motorized HD shades in my current home and don't like them as much as the few Somfy/Graber shades I installed.  HD was a pain to integrate.  Graber was relatively easy.  That's why I chose them for the new project.  And, again, the 40 shades should not be an issue in terms of integration complexity.  They will be grouped -- e.g. in one case 24 will be a single "room name" for integration and/or voice control purposes.  
 
I'm still hoping someone has insight on the LTI vs OmniPo issue. 

 

[wkearney99]

'm still hoping someone has insight on the LTI vs OmniPo issue. 

 
Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

 

[ano]

I have about 25 Somfy RTS shades.  With 40 (and 25) there were challenges.  I use the Somfy Universal RTS Interface II which supports 16 channels and connect that to an Omni Pro II.  In the Omni you create control strings, and then you can send these strings to the Somfy Universal RTS Interface II when you want.  
 
So a few things. First, RTS range is not great. The antennas are tiny, so really watch that the antenna is positioned good when they are installed.  You most likely will need an RS repeater. I have one and still occasionally the signal doesn't go through, so first, whatever method you use, I would recommend the Omni sens any command multiple times maybe with 30 seconds between.  
 
Second, with the Somfy Universal RTS Interface II, at least, its 16 "channels."  I think each blind can learn 8 channels.  So a blind can have its own channel, or a group of blinds can share a channel.  So watch your channel allocation carefully, you only have so many.
 
I don't use any hard wired switches.  I think using in-wall switches is not the best.  Technology just changes too fast.  In my last house I had touch panels, and today, they are so "last year."  So I have a Somfy remote in ever room mounted by the door. They work great. Most are Up, Down, and MY, but they make remotes with more channels.  
 
But honestly, the remotes are really just for visitors. We don't use them much. We have Echos in every room so everything is controlled by voice.  In 10 years, who knows, everything might be controlled mental thoughts and voice will be so "last year."  Echos and remotes are easy to throw away. Panels and in-wall switches are "forever."  
 
So the Omni controls the blinds well.  Mainly it closes blinds at night, opens them in the morning.  BUT you may want to also add some Somfy light/heat sensors.  These are things like about the size of 6 quarters stacked together that you stick on windows, and they can override things.  For example, (and I live in AZ) sun really beats down on some cabinets and in the bedroom at times of year, so these controllers close and open blinds to avoid that.  Guaranteed you will want to buy some.  They are called Somfy ThermoSunis Sun and Temperature Sensor, and they cost some ungodly price like $250 each, which is crazy. 
 
Also, In my house, I have Somfy blinds and Somfy shades, but also use SmartTint.  (https://www.smarttint.com )
This has been great on high windows and I use it on the glass windows in my office on the French doors I installed around Thanksgiving.  They go from (mostly) clear to frosted with the push of a remote.  They don't 100% block the sun, but they reduce the light by like 60%.  No, this won't replace blinds, but it can supplement them.  Oh, beware, the SmartTint is also not cheap.  The two pieces on my office French Door windows cost more than the French Doors themselves.  ($1200 Tint vs. $900 for doors)  But when people see it they go Woooo.  

 

[SHRemote]

I have about 25 Somfy RTS shades.  With 40 (and 25) there were challenges.  I use the Somfy Universal RTS Interface II which supports 16 channels and connect that to an Omni Pro II.  In the Omni you create control strings, and then you can send these strings to the Somfy Universal RTS Interface II when you want.  
 
So a few things. First, RTS range is not great. The antennas are tiny, so really watch that the antenna is positioned good when they are installed.  You most likely will need an RS repeater. I have one and still occasionally the signal doesn't go through, so first, whatever method you use, I would recommend the Omni sens any command multiple times maybe with 30 seconds between.  
 
Second, with the Somfy Universal RTS Interface II, at least, its 16 "channels."  I think each blind can learn 8 channels.  So a blind can have its own channel, or a group of blinds can share a channel.  So watch your channel allocation carefully, you only have so many.
 
I don't use any hard wired switches.  I think using in-wall switches is not the best.  Technology just changes too fast.  In my last house I had touch panels, and today, they are so "last year."  So I have a Somfy remote in ever room mounted by the door. They work great. Most are Up, Down, and MY, but they make remotes with more channels.  
 
But honestly, the remotes are really just for visitors. We don't use them much. We have Echos in every room so everything is controlled by voice.  In 10 years, who knows, everything might be controlled mental thoughts and voice will be so "last year."  Echos and remotes are easy to throw away. Panels and in-wall switches are "forever."  
 
So the Omni controls the blinds well.  Mainly it closes blinds at night, opens them in the morning.  BUT you may want to also add some Somfy light/heat sensors.  These are things like about the size of 6 quarters stacked together that you stick on windows, and they can override things.  For example, (and I live in AZ) sun really beats down on some cabinets and in the bedroom at times of year, so these controllers close and open blinds to avoid that.  Guaranteed you will want to buy some.  They are called Somfy ThermoSunis Sun and Temperature Sensor, and they cost some ungodly price like $250 each, which is crazy. 
 
Also, In my house, I have Somfy blinds and Somfy shades, but also use SmartTint.  (https://www.smarttint.com )
This has been great on high windows and I use it on the glass windows in my office on the French doors I installed around Thanksgiving.  They go from (mostly) clear to frosted with the push of a remote.  They don't 100% block the sun, but they reduce the light by like 60%.  No, this won't replace blinds, but it can supplement them.  Oh, beware, the SmartTint is also not cheap.  The two pieces on my office French Door windows cost more than the French Doors themselves.  ($1200 Tint vs. $900 for doors)  But when people see it they go Woooo.  

Thanks for the insight.  I had planned on daisy-chaining the URTSI's.  I'm hoping I can get away with only two because of the grouping.  IOW:  If I'm right, I don't have to program each shade individually to the URTIS (as long as I've got a remote that can control each one for those times I need it.) Instead I can program the shades in groups  -- e.g. all of the shades covering the sliding doors = Channel 1 and all of the clerestory shades = Channel 2.  If that's doable, then I would actually only need 1 URTSI.  I'll still probably buy two to have more flexibility and range.   I've also read about the poor range.  Some folks have added the repeater and some have upgraded the antenna.  I may do both.  
 
I was actually thinking about the solar sensor.  In fact, for a while I was thinking about Somfy's Animeo system.  https://www.somfysystems.com/commercial/smart-building/building-controls/animeo-solo .  For now, I decided that I'll see how things work for a year (with the varying solar loads) and then decide.  Because the Animeo and Sunis will both do RTS, I can add them later.  But it's a great point.  
 
Smart Tint is very slick.  I'll look into more.  

 

[ano]

Thanks for the insight.  I had planned on daisy-chaining the URTSI's.  I'm hoping I can get away with only two because of the grouping.  IOW:  If I'm right, I don't have to program each shade individually to the URTIS (as long as I've got a remote that can control each one for those times I need it.) Instead I can program the shades in groups  -- e.g. all of the shades covering the sliding doors = Channel 1 and all of the clerestory shades = Channel 2.  If that's doable, then I would actually only need 1 URTSI.  I'll still probably buy two to have more flexibility and range.   I've also read about the poor range.  Some folks have added the repeater and some have upgraded the antenna.  I may do both.  
 
I was actually thinking about the solar sensor.  In fact, for a while I was thinking about Somfy's Animeo system.  https://www.somfysystems.com/commercial/smart-building/building-controls/animeo-solo .  For now, I decided that I'll see how things work for a year (with the varying solar loads) and then decide.  Because the Animeo and Sunis will both do RTS, I can add them later.  But it's a great point.  
 
Smart Tint is very slick.  I'll look into more.  

Yes, you have it correct.  Each blind has 8 "slots" to store a channel, so a blind can store one channel for a group, and another for itself, and even another for a second group. 
 
For me, the biggest problem was that Somfy RTS blinds only have three commands, that I know, Open, Close and MY. The MY is a multifunction button.  If you ONLY use open and close, that is easy, but in my house, I use Close and MY.  For Solar shades, Open & Close is probably fine, but in residential shades, you don't usually FULLY open them.  But MY is also Stop.  
 
In any case, with a group of blinds, say I want them to ALL go to MY but one doesn't receive the signal?  So you press MY again, and the one blind start moving but all the others Stop.  Anyway it gets crazy after a while.  They shouldn't have combined MY with Stop.  Maybe seemed good at the time, and they save a button, but more pain then its worth.  
 
How do you upgrade the antenna? I haven't heard of that. 

 

[SHRemote]

Yes, you have it correct.  Each blind has 8 "slots" to store a channel, so a blind can store one channel for a group, and another for itself, and even another for a second group. 
 
For me, the biggest problem was that Somfy RTS blinds only have three commands, that I know, Open, Close and MY. The MY is a multifunction button.  If you ONLY use open and close, that is easy, but in my house, I use Close and MY.  For Solar shades, Open & Close is probably fine, but in residential shades, you don't usually FULLY open them.  But MY is also Stop.  
 
In any case, with a group of blinds, say I want them to ALL go to MY but one doesn't receive the signal?  So you press MY again, and the one blind start moving but all the others Stop.  Anyway it gets crazy after a while.  They shouldn't have combined MY with Stop.  Maybe seemed good at the time, and they save a button, but more pain then its worth.  
 
How do you upgrade the antenna? I haven't heard of that. 

Thanks for information.  I've read about people replacing the antenna in a few places.  Here's one:  https://www.reddit.com/r/homeautomation/comments/67msez/can_i_use_somfy_rts_and_lutron_radio_ra2_within/ .  This guy says that this $10 antenna works well.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009LOTXA4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[SHRemote]

Ano.  I’ve got another related question.  If I use the OmniPro instead of the LTI send the commands, I need to be sure I can use a single button push to either open them or close them (or alternatively Open, Stop, Close, Stop).  IOW, I only want to use one keypad button to control a group of shades. That is all the functionality I need from the OmniPro (I think).  I read one of your posts from a six year old thread where you seem to be describing this type of operation in your set-up.  Thanks!

 

[ano]

The Omni Pro can basically do anything the Somfy Universal RTS Interface II supports, which is anything. You create a string of text and characters, then send it to the RTS interface. If you have a very long string, you can append two together in the Omni.  A "button" can trigger it or anything else. Set the port to "Prolink" and 9600 baud.  HAI/Leviton used to sell the cable, but you can make one also. 
 
Like this will close my kitchen blinds: 0107D^M^J
Move blind 7 down