jmed999
Active Member
I'll have to check this when I get home from work today.
Strange False Alarm Today...
- Thread starter jmed999
- Start date
I'll have to check this when I get home from work today.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
I think a key point was missed here - the door is a wireless sensor, so voltage tests/etc are null... when the door is opened/closed, the sensor sends out the signal like 8 times - since there's no two-way communication, this is an attempt to make sure the signal is caught. In this case, it sounds like the alarm panel didn't receive the first couple door sensor transmissions but it did catch the motion (OP didn't state if the motion was wired or wireless; wired would react much faster).
You need to do some testing on that wireless sensor to see why it had trouble getting its signal through. If you look through the Elk manual, there's instructions on putting it in walk test mode and it'll let you know how many of the transmissions it received (if the sensor sends 8 and the panel gets 2, you have a reliability issue). Also, certain things might interfere; maybe she was talking on her cell phone as she walked through the door? Without double checking frequencies, there's a possibility the two conflicted blocking the signal. Also as the batteries get older, the transmissions get weaker... Lots of possibilities.
You need to do some testing on that wireless sensor to see why it had trouble getting its signal through. If you look through the Elk manual, there's instructions on putting it in walk test mode and it'll let you know how many of the transmissions it received (if the sensor sends 8 and the panel gets 2, you have a reliability issue). Also, certain things might interfere; maybe she was talking on her cell phone as she walked through the door? Without double checking frequencies, there's a possibility the two conflicted blocking the signal. Also as the batteries get older, the transmissions get weaker... Lots of possibilities.
Telekenis is REAL!!!jmed999 said:
I doubt that the door sensor retransmits for 8+ seconds. Plus she probably closed it behind her. Although if she closed it poorly and it popped back open 8 seconds later that could explain it as the second activation where the panel missed the first for whatever reason. Wireless security sensors are not in the same band as cell phones.
wuench
Senior Member
Obviously the problem here is the cleaning lady. You need to get a slower model... 
I agree, follower may solve it, and is the simplest thing to try. It is also the correct setting for that motion if it is in view of the door. You could also consider a cross-zone pool with another motion sensor. Some other things to try:
I agree, follower may solve it, and is the simplest thing to try. It is also the correct setting for that motion if it is in view of the door. You could also consider a cross-zone pool with another motion sensor. Some other things to try:
- up the beam count setting on the motion if it is adjustable.
- Try masking the motion detector so it doesn't see that door, or moving it to a new location.
- Replace the motion detector with a different model
- Replace the wireless sensor with another wireless sensor
- Replace the wireless sensor with a wired sensor.
jmed999
Active Member
No the follower would NOT have prevented this. I will change the motions so they are in follower mode but in this case since the door sensor didn't get violated the motions would not have followed the door sensor.wuench said:Obviously the problem here is the cleaning lady. You need to get a slower model...
I agree, follower may solve it, and is the simplest thing to try. It is also the correct setting for that motion if it is in view of the door. You could also consider a cross-zone pool with another motion sensor. Some other things to try:
I have had a couple of motions false while I was not at home, the reasons for them will remain a mystery but in rooms where it happened more than once I replaced the motion with a different model.
- up the beam count setting on the motion if it is adjustable.
- Try masking the motion detector so it doesn't see that door, or moving it to a new location.
- Replace the motion detector with a different model
- Replace the wireless sensor with another wireless sensor
- Replace the wireless sensor with a wired sensor.
-I actually have 2 motions in the living room and they are in a cross zone pool. So both motions were violated before the door sensor was violated. The cross zone pool didn't help in this case.
-Why up the beam count setting on the motions? What does that do?
-Why would I replace the motions? They acted exactly how they should have.
The motions did NOT give a false. The door sensor not being violated is the problem....not the motions. I think several things are being missed here.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
I have to agree with jmed - some suggestions just don't make sense when you're talking about wireless and this particular sequence of events.
there are a few possibilities... Either the system had trouble getting the door signal through (allowing the two motions to register and get logged first) then the door - none of us know if there's message queueing going on that could create the 8 second delay artificially or how the Elk logs internally;
possibility 2) - it didn't trip on the first pass through the door; after she turned off the alarm, she then immediately went out to get her stuff triggering the door on the second pass
The sensors try to send 8 signals - anyone know how quickly it does it? And as said above, we don't know for sure that there was 8 seconds between the incidents - only 8 seconds between when the M1 wrote the log; a lot may be going on between the receiver, the M1, any queuing of events, and finally writing them.
jmed - don't assume the batteries are good because the sensor is new - I've had that happen a few times where a new sensor ships with a bad battery; also placement is key - depending on where your receiver is it might have trouble picking up the door. Also, which sensor exactly? You said GE but not which one.
Lots of things can affect door contacts; in my house luckily my security doors work flawlessly but once in a while I have misfires on the sensors tied to the kids' room doors. I put my RF receiver in a place optimized for the entry doors/windows and the Kids' rooms are in a different enough part of the house that I think they're not quite getting the signal... so in my case at least, a 2nd receiver will probably help.
Also - just because a cell phone isn't in the 312mhz range doesn't mean it can't interfere... haven't you ever heard your WIRED/amplified speakers go crazy when a GSM phone is communicating nearby? Granted I don't have the tools to test this theory, but I'd bet a cell phone could still wreak havoc under perfect conditions.
there are a few possibilities... Either the system had trouble getting the door signal through (allowing the two motions to register and get logged first) then the door - none of us know if there's message queueing going on that could create the 8 second delay artificially or how the Elk logs internally;
possibility 2) - it didn't trip on the first pass through the door; after she turned off the alarm, she then immediately went out to get her stuff triggering the door on the second pass
The sensors try to send 8 signals - anyone know how quickly it does it? And as said above, we don't know for sure that there was 8 seconds between the incidents - only 8 seconds between when the M1 wrote the log; a lot may be going on between the receiver, the M1, any queuing of events, and finally writing them.
jmed - don't assume the batteries are good because the sensor is new - I've had that happen a few times where a new sensor ships with a bad battery; also placement is key - depending on where your receiver is it might have trouble picking up the door. Also, which sensor exactly? You said GE but not which one.
Lots of things can affect door contacts; in my house luckily my security doors work flawlessly but once in a while I have misfires on the sensors tied to the kids' room doors. I put my RF receiver in a place optimized for the entry doors/windows and the Kids' rooms are in a different enough part of the house that I think they're not quite getting the signal... so in my case at least, a 2nd receiver will probably help.
Also - just because a cell phone isn't in the 312mhz range doesn't mean it can't interfere... haven't you ever heard your WIRED/amplified speakers go crazy when a GSM phone is communicating nearby? Granted I don't have the tools to test this theory, but I'd bet a cell phone could still wreak havoc under perfect conditions.
jmed999
Active Member
Thanks for the reply Work2Play!
After some research....the sensor does try to send 8 signals over a 10 second period. The door sensor was picked up 8 seconds after the 1st motion was violated.
I have the GE recessed door sensor http://www.smarthome.com/79463/GE-Security-TX-1510-01-1-DesignLine-Recessed-Door-Window-Sensor/p.aspx
I put the system in "Walk Test" mode and when the front door was opened it said, "Level 7, Level 7". When the motions were violated the both said, "Level 7, Level 1, Level 7".
I read the owners manual it it says only 1 level is given with 8 being the best but my sensors give more than one level. ie. the motions say, "Level 7, Level 1, Level 7". Not sure what the Level 1 means or why it's giving 3 levels.
Anyone know?
After some research....the sensor does try to send 8 signals over a 10 second period. The door sensor was picked up 8 seconds after the 1st motion was violated.
I have the GE recessed door sensor http://www.smarthome.com/79463/GE-Security-TX-1510-01-1-DesignLine-Recessed-Door-Window-Sensor/p.aspx
I put the system in "Walk Test" mode and when the front door was opened it said, "Level 7, Level 7". When the motions were violated the both said, "Level 7, Level 1, Level 7".
I read the owners manual it it says only 1 level is given with 8 being the best but my sensors give more than one level. ie. the motions say, "Level 7, Level 1, Level 7". Not sure what the Level 1 means or why it's giving 3 levels.
Anyone know?
jmed999
Active Member
I have a GE wireless one. Here is a link to it... http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-119-60-511-02-95-iti-wireless-ds924i-pet-immune-pir.aspx
tmbrown97
Senior Member
Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that one - but the fact that it takes up to 10 seconds definitely tells you something.
I don't know how long you've had this set up and how long you've had this cleaning lady, but I'd fix the Interior Follower setting, make sure you've got your receiver set up for maximum range (some people don't install the ground plane antennas originally) and see if it happens again - and make sure your cleaning lady knows what to do if it does.
I don't know how long you've had this set up and how long you've had this cleaning lady, but I'd fix the Interior Follower setting, make sure you've got your receiver set up for maximum range (some people don't install the ground plane antennas originally) and see if it happens again - and make sure your cleaning lady knows what to do if it does.
