Strange UPB problem

[BobS0327]

I just identified a strange UPB problem.  I have the Omni Pro II system installed using firmware version 3.15.  The issue occurs whenever I issue a "All Off" command from a console by hitting the  four and zero key combination.  Hitting the "All Off" key combination will turn on watering zone # 22 of my WGL Rain8 UPB system.  Zone 22 is on the 3rd WGL module.  That is, I have a Master module with 8 watering zones and two secondary modules with 8 watering zones  So, Zone #22 is actually the 6th zone on my third module.
 
I do not have any programming to handle the "All Off" condition.  So, a programming error can be ruled out.
 
I ran Upstart and checked the log when I issued an "all Off" command.  A  image of the log is below.  I've also included a image of the Units area for the Rain8 UPB zone 22.
 
I'd greatly appreciate any help resolving this problem.
 
 

 

[JonW]

The Rain8 is likely reacting to receiving the link commands for that room. I would program the options for that room to not react to the All-Off command. Additionally, the HAI All-Off does it's command on a room-by-room basis, so it can take a while to turn everything off (depending on how many rooms you have). A better approach might be to use an extra link within each room that is called "All Off" or "All Off Downstairs", "All Off Upstairs", etc. I use this approach and I like the way all lights actually do go off simultaneously.

 

[BobS0327]

I haven't created any rooms.  Well, at least I can say that I don't have any rooms listed in the Rooms option under extended setup.Maybe somehow, I've unintentionally created rooms that I'm not aware of.  Also, I'm not using any link commands that I'm aware of.
 
I'm only using Upstart for the log feature and have never created any rooms with this software.  All my UPB light switches are HLC configured.
 
I've strived to keep the controller as simple as possible.  IOW, "plain vanilla" in order to make trouble shooting as painless as possible since I don't spend much time working with the controller. 

 

[JonW]

Your HLC configuration is already allocated into rooms. Every 8 units is broken down into a room. You don't need to create the rooms in the extended setup area.

 

[BobS0327]

OK. I now understand.  In the Units Setup, I set all the Rain8 UPB zones to Enable All On = NO and Enable All Off = NO and reloaded everything to the controller.  I then issued a Four Zero "All Off" command.  The Rain8 zone 22 still turned on.
 
BTW, my Rain8 modules use the UPB house code format and my switches use the HLC format.

 

[Desert_AIP]

You're showing units 83-87

Do you have anything programmed into units 81 or 82?


Scene 86 is the Off command for units 114-120

Do you have any of those units programmed? Room 15?
 
Is UPB unit 65 the first Rain 8 Zone?


Since HLC uses all Activate commands, even for All Off, I suspect Link 86 is programmed into your Rain 8 to Activate and turn on the zone.
You can see that from the UPStart log.

 

[BobS0327]

Do you have anything programmed into units 81 or 82?

I have 32 Rain8 UPB watering zones in total.  Zone #1 starts at 65 thru zone #32 at 96.  All 32 zones have Enable All On = NO and Enable All Off = No
I also have 97 thru 112 designated as UPB house code.  Enable All On and Enable All Off for all these units is set to NO.  This group contains only a Rain Sensor and a Water Flow sensor at 97 and 98 respectively.
 
81 contains my Rain17 watering zone and 82 contains my Rain18 watering zone.  Both have Enable All On and Enable All Off set to NO.
 

Do you have any of those units programmed? Room 15?

 
I have Room 15 (113 thru 128 designated as HLC house code format.  This group has Enable All On and Enable All Off set to YES. All my UPB light switches are in this group (Room 15).  There are no Rain8 units in this group.  There are a total of five HLC switches in this group as follows:
 
113 RM15
114 RM15-2
115 RM115-3
116 RM15-4
117 RM15-5
 

Is UPB unit 65 the first Rain 8 Zone?

Yes, it is.

 

Since HLC uses all Activate commands, even for All Off, I suspect Link 86 is programmed into your Rain 8 to Activate and turn on the zone.
You can see that from the UPStat log.

Yes, I believe that is what is happening.  But I just don't understand how (or where) I programmed link 86 into my Rain8.
 
 
 
 

 

[Desert_AIP]

I have Room 15 (113 thru 128 designated as HLC house code format.  This group has Enable All On and Enable All Off set to YES. All my UPB light switches are in this group (Room 15).  There are no Rain8 units in this group.  There are a total of five HLC switches in this group as follows:

 
Since you have Room 15 as HLC that is why it is sending Link 86 Activate with an All Off command
 
Your Unit 86 (Rain 22) appears to have Link 86 programmed into it. 
You need to check in UPStart and remove that link.
The Rain8 UPB docs tell you to input individual appliance modules into UPStart for each Rain8 zone to be able to read each zone parameters in UPStart.
 
 
 

The Rain8UPB and UPStart
In the UPB world everything is setup with UPStart. The export
from UPStart is used as the input when other automation is
integrated with UPB. Unfortunately UPStart does not see the
Rain8UPB as a standard UPB module. The solution is to create
8 UPB Appliance modules with their DID’s mapped into the 8
Rain8 DIDs to become “place holders” for the Rain8UPBs.
To installer must enter the module numbers that were previously
programmed into the Rain8UPB. For example you have one
Rain8UPB module and it is configured to be module ID #3, the
actual UPB device ID’s will be 17 through 24 for these 8 valves.
As the user/installer you need to select module ID’s that will
result in Device IDs that are not already being used by UPStart.
If what you have selected overlaps with your existing UPB
network then you will need to reprogram the Rain8UPB to find an
unused sequence of UPB DID’s. It also means that in the future
when you add other UPB modules you will not want to add these
at the same device address as the Rain8UPBs.

 

[Desert_AIP]

If you send other link activate commands from UPStart do the other zones turn on?
 
i.e. if you send Link 85 Activate does your zone 21 turn on?
 
Link 85 Activate should be Room 15 ON

 

[BobS0327]

If you send other link activate commands from UPStart do the other zones turn on?
 
i.e. if you send Link 85 Activate does your zone 21 turn on?
 
Link 85 Activate should be Room 15 ON

I'm not familiar with Upstart to be able to send a link activate command.  I've never used it before to configure any UPB devices.  The UPB switches were configured via PC Access and the WGL Rain8 UPB devices were configured using the configuration software supplied by WGL.  I just recently downloaded/installed UPstart to only use it as a UPB powerline "sniffer" to determine what is being sent over the powerline when a "All Off" command is issued.
 
Here is a link to the instructions that I used to configure the WGL Rain8 modules  http://www.wgldesigns.com/downloads/30080master_rain8upb.pdf

 

[Desert_AIP]

UPStart is a key tool to program and troubleshoot your UPB network, even if they are automatically programmed by other means.

Open up the link table in UPStart, scroll to the link and click activate.

Very simple to use.
The only way to determine what is happening is to look at each UPB device in UPStart and see which links each device is programmed to respond to.

Looking at the Rain8 UPB protocol docs, it is using the standard UPB protocol commands for turning links on and off and also each unit (zone) on and off.
From the behavior you are describing, your zone HAS to have Link 86 programmed in to it to respond when that link is transmitted.
It's possible the default behavior of the Rain8 is to program the link corresponding to each unit ID into the unit channels so it responds to both link and unit commands.
Since those links in an HLC network are reserved for other purposes you have to remove them.

The other option is to move the Rain8 Unit IDs to the very end so they take up the very high registers and won't be aligned with the links of the other rooms.

 

[BobS0327]

UPStart is a key tool to program and troubleshoot your UPB network, even if they are automatically programmed by other means.

 
Well, I'm trying to get more familiar with Upstart.But I repeatedly get the following errors whenever I start the app
 
To get around these errors. I go into Configure, choose RS232PIM and click on Connect.  This will display a message indicating the the Selected Powerline Interface is operational. (3328) Unkown UPB interface firmware version 0.00  After I do this, the application seems to work properly.
 
I'm using a Leviton PIM module with a USB to Serial adapter and I'm using UPStart version 7.0 Build 30.
 
Can anybody shed some light as to the cause of these errors?

 

[Desert_AIP]

The second popup is just the reminder nag to check for an updated version of UPStart, you can turn it off if you like.
 
Different versions of the firmware allow different capabilities as the system is developed and expanded.
The version of UPStart you are using has capabilities not implemented in your PIM firmware, hence the conflict.
 
The best thing to do is us a dedicated PIM for the UPStart computer, they aren't that expensive.
I use mine with a USB to serial adapter so unless the driver for yours is flawed, it should work fine.
 
Without a dedicated PIM, you can't see the traffic from the Omni in the log.
 
However, the 0.00 firmware alert generally means the PIM is not in the correct mode or needs to be reset.
The PIM has two modes (IIRC, Pulse and Message) and UPStart uses one mode and the Omni uses the other. 
Sometimes, if things are not shut down correctly, when you swap the PIM it can stay in the other mode.
 
You should be able to reset the PIM by pressing the setup button 5 times rapidly, pause the LED blinks, press the button 10 times rapidly, pause the led will flash on and off, press it 2 times to return to operating mode.
 
 

The interface has two operating modes: MESSAGE mode and
PULSE mode. The last-used operational mode is retained during
power interruption. UPStart software automatically sets the
interface to PULSE mode operation, but most controllers require
MESSAGE mode. To restore MESSAGE mode operation, or to
reset the unit to factory default settings (i.e. re-flash the firmware
to resolve a ‘connection issue’ with UPStart) …
1. Place the UMC in SETUP mode by pressing the Program
Switch (located just above the indicator) five times rapidly
using a non-metallic toothpick. The indicator will
continuously blink RED.
2. Reset to MESSAGE mode by pressing the Program Switch
ten times. The indicator will continuously blink GREEN.
3. Press the Program Switch twice to exit SETUP mode.

 

[BobS0327]

If you send other link activate commands from UPStart do the other zones turn on?
 
i.e. if you send Link 85 Activate does your zone 21 turn on?
 
Link 85 Activate should be Room 15 ON

It took me a while to get familiar with Upstart.  But anyway, I did activate link (scene) 85 and it does turn on Rain8 zone 21. 
 
 I believe Rain8 zones 21 thru 26 map to links (scenes)  85 thru 90.  I'm using 26 Rain8 zones. Thus, by marking these scenes as unused will eliminate the problem.  Is my assumption correct?
 
Also, I am using a dedicated PIM for my testing.

 

[Desert_AIP]

You have to go in to the device in UPStart and delete scene 85 from your zone 21.