Struggling with controller choices

[Waterboy77]

ISY portal is only an every two year payment. It started at $50 per two years but IIRC it dropped to $12 per year. That includes the Network Resource module also but I purchased the NR module outright years ago and that changes the combo price. I don't understand your question about build subject. The forum has everything regarding ISY and home automation plus remote control apps and vocal remote control. Router items. Writing software to support almost anything. Right now there a lot of zwave stuff as people attempt to make some of it work with various brand incompatibilities. RGBW lightbulb and strip drivers. Blind controls. You would have to look for yourself. Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Thanks, great information
 
In home theater there a lot of build threads for the room , diy speakers... etc. In the threads they will go into detail on the systems they have and how they integrate together. Some discuss design of room or speakers and step by step photos of the build and discussions on why they went in the direction that they did. I haven't seen anything like that in HA and was curious if it existed.
I guess if a person found someone that was doing things in a manner that you agreed with one could follow along to mimic that persons core ideas and system and add some of there own spin to it. Just a curiosity as I have followed may build thread for my own theater and found them very useful resources in the building of mine

 

[Waterboy77]

I've got both an Elk M1 security panel and a SmartThings hub.
 
I have to say that they both have their benefits.
 
The Elk has been rock solid, especially for opening and closing relays and simple logic automation. I use it for automatically closing my driveway gates, because it is extremely reliable.   It integrates with very little though.   
 
Smartthings is slightly less reliable because it is cloud based.  It's not too bad though.  I have experienced one 20 minute outage in the past year due to their servers,  and a few more outages due to internet outages.   But it integrates with pretty much everything (Zwave, Zigbee, Ecobee, Arlo, Nest, Alexa, Lutron, Rachio, IFTTT, Phillip hue bulbs, Lifx, Harmony)..  There is even an Elk M1 integration now.     It has a huge developer base, and using webcore, you can write some very complex automation. 
 
I would recommend getting a smartthings hub and then you can get the best of all the other components and link them together in smartthings.
 
If you don\'t like the cloud based model, There is a competitor now called hubitat that is not cloud based, but uses a lot of the same integrations and device handlers.

Hi hgupta1,
Are you mostly hardwired to your elk? Do you connect the elk to your smartthings hub?
Yes the smart things hub looks to have many.... many systems that it integrates with making it very appealing.
I hadn't heard of hubitat till you mentioned it, I will take a look
Thank you

 

[hgupta1]

Hi hgupta1,
Are you mostly hardwired to your elk? Do you connect the elk to your smartthings hub?
Yes the smart things hub looks to have many.... many systems that it integrates with making it very appealing.
I hadn't heard of hubitat till you mentioned it, I will take a look
Thank you

 
I am half hardwired, half wireless.   The wireless components work well, but I am trying to retrofit an old sprawling historic mansion and I am trying to keep the character so I use wired whenever possible.  Those little white wireless sensors don't look right on vintage doors.
 
Yes, I have my smartthings hub integrated with my Elk M1 hub.  That is still a work in progress but it is working pretty well.  My most used feature is that the Elk M1 lets smartthigns know when the house is armed away, and it then runs a smartthings routine that sets the Ecobee and Sensibo thermostats to energy conservation mode,  locks the zwave locks on the other doors, turns off all the Lutron lights, turns off any TVs left on by the kids (using the Harmony IR controller), and the Alexa devices announce that the house is Armed,   (Alexa sounds so much better than the Elk voice module, and we have them throughout the house).    As you can tell Smartthigns lets you use the best of the best components.   Homeseer is another great option.  It doesn't have as many integrations, and unfortunately, you have to pay for most of them (usually about $30 to $40),  but it is all local and reliable.

 

[Waterboy77]

I am half hardwired, half wireless.   The wireless components work well, but I am trying to retrofit an old sprawling historic mansion and I am trying to keep the character so I use wired whenever possible.  Those little white wireless sensors don't look right on vintage doors.
 
Yes, I have my smartthings hub integrated with my Elk M1 hub.  That is still a work in progress but it is working pretty well.  My most used feature is that the Elk M1 lets smartthigns know when the house is armed away, and it then runs a smartthings routine that sets the Ecobee and Sensibo thermostats to energy conservation mode,  locks the zwave locks on the other doors, turns off all the Lutron lights, turns off any TVs left on by the kids (using the Harmony IR controller), and the Alexa devices announce that the house is Armed,   (Alexa sounds so much better than the Elk voice module, and we have them throughout the house).    As you can tell Smartthigns lets you use the best of the best components.   Homeseer is another great option.  It doesn't have as many integrations, and unfortunately, you have to pay for most of them (usually about $30 to $40),  but it is all local and reliable.

Thanks hgupta1,
I agree hiding tech in a vintage home is the way to go. 
Thanks for the added information on smartthings..... more information aids in my decision 

 

[Dean Roddey]

Hi hgupta1,
Are you mostly hardwired to your elk? Do you connect the elk to your smartthings hub?
Yes the smart things hub looks to have many.... many systems that it integrates with making it very appealing.
I hadn't heard of hubitat till you mentioned it, I will take a look
Thank you

 
It's not how many, it's how well, how consistently, and how reliably that ultimately matters. The automation system is the core of the whole thing. Don't pick it based on what you want to support. Pick it and then select things that work the best with it, where at all possible. Ultimately, the real value is in the overall synergy of the solution, not in this or that particular piece of controlled gear (though obviously don't pick something a piece of gear that can't do what you need done just because it's supported.)

 

[Waterboy77]

It's not how many, it's how well, how consistently, and how reliably that ultimately matters. The automation system is the core of the whole thing. Don't pick it based on what you want to support. Pick it and then select things that work the best with it, where at all possible. Ultimately, the real value is in the overall synergy of the solution, not in this or that particular piece of controlled gear (though obviously don't pick something a piece of gear that can't do what you need done just because it's supported.)

I agree Dean but as a new guy to HA selecting or knowing what is reliable is very difficult.

 

[wkearney99]

Those little white wireless sensors don't look right on vintage doors.

 
There are wireless ones designed to embed in the door & frame.  But then you've batteries to maintain.  Wired is certainly my choice when possible.

 

[viroid]

I started my HA project when I finished renovating my house in early 2016.

I'm using an Elk M1G panel for security and core automation. Magnetic reed switches on all of the interior and exterior doors, windows, Bosch PIR's for motion, glass break detectors, GRI leak sensors, a couple of $2 chinese float sensors, and the thermostats, are all hardwired.

Thermostats are OmniStat 2's, attached to a common dual zone heat pump, one on each floor in the primary space, they work fine, we rarely touch them. If I had to do it over, I might go with RCS or Aprilaire thermostats mounted in the basement near the HA equipment and distribute wired temperature probes throughout the house.

I went with Simply Automated UPB gear for lighting as it is a standalone system for all intents and purposes, it does not require a hub, or the internet. The Elk simply sends on/off/dim commands via a serial UPB module.

I have the M1 Touch app for android on my phone which lets me connect to my panel, I can arm/disarm, adjust thermostats, lighting, etc.

I added Homeseer about a year ago so that I could play with Amazon Alexa and Google home. The UltraM1G3 plugin basically exposes the Elk panel and everything attached to it to Homeseer and thus I can use Elk components when writing events and expose lighting and thermostats to Alexa and Google.

I do mean everything, security switches, thermostats, UPB lighting, etc. And you don't actually have to attach a UPB PIM to the Homeseer box to control the UPB lighting because you have access to it via the Elk plugin. ($$) I will note that Elk's support for UPB is limited, it doesn't receive updates, like the usb UPB PIM attached to Homeseer does. i.e. If I touch a switch, Homeseer will see state change, Elk wont.

I tried a few different mobile apps for Homeseer, I think I've settled on the recently released Homeseer official Mobile App, decent UI and it works well enough.

I didn't wire for external motion sensors when I wired the house, because I was ignorant, so after running across the Homeseer Zwave Floodlight Sensors, I added the Homeseer Zwave Plus S2 usb module to my Homeseer server. I can now get motion events, light status, and lux readings from my 120v floodlights.

Also picked up a Homeseer Zwave Water Leak Sensor because the kids dump water all over the bathroom floor on a regular basis.


I have a heavy duty relay that I'm planning to install on the water heater, and an electronic ball valve for the main water line coming into the house. These will both be connected to the Elk. I also ordered some $12 IR beam sensors off Amazon that I want to play with, I figured they might work well on the basement stairs to kick the light on before I get to the bottom of the stairs and trip the motion sensor.


If I ever sell the house, all of the hardwired stuff (contacts, sensors) can be reused with another panel. Or they can buy the Elk panel. As UPB doesn't require a controller, they could use it with or without the Elk, for a fee, otherwise I'll just take the switches with me for the next place.

Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk

 

[hgupta1]

I started my HA project when I finished renovating my house in early 2016. I'm using an Elk M1G panel for security and core automation. Magnetic reed switches on all of the interior and exterior doors, windows, Bosch PIR's for motion, glass break detectors, GRI leak sensors, a couple of $2 chinese float sensors, and the thermostats, are all hardwired. Thermostats are OmniStat 2's, attached to a common dual zone heat pump, one on each floor in the primary space, they work fine, we rarely touch them. If I had to do it over, I might go with RCS or Aprilaire thermostats mounted in the basement near the HA equipment and distribute wired temperature probes throughout the house. I went with Simply Automated UPB gear for lighting as it is a standalone system for all intents and purposes, it does not require a hub, or the internet. The Elk simply sends on/off/dim commands via a serial UPB module. I have the M1 Touch app for android on my phone which lets me connect to my panel, I can arm/disarm, adjust thermostats, lighting, etc. I added Homeseer about a year ago so that I could play with Amazon Alexa and Google home. The UltraM1G3 plugin basically exposes the Elk panel and everything attached to it to Homeseer and thus I can use Elk components when writing events and expose lighting and thermostats to Alexa and Google. I do mean everything, security switches, thermostats, UPB lighting, etc. And you don't actually have to attach a UPB PIM to the Homeseer box to control the UPB lighting because you have access to it via the Elk plugin. ($$) I will note that Elk's support for UPB is limited, it doesn't receive updates, like the usb UPB PIM attached to Homeseer does. i.e. If I touch a switch, Homeseer will see state change, Elk wont. I tried a few different mobile apps for Homeseer, I think I've settled on the recently released Homeseer official Mobile App, decent UI and it works well enough. I didn't wire for external motion sensors when I wired the house, because I was ignorant, so after running across the Homeseer Zwave Floodlight Sensors, I added the Homeseer Zwave Plus S2 usb module to my Homeseer server. I can now get motion events, light status, and lux readings from my 120v floodlights. Also picked up a Homeseer Zwave Water Leak Sensor because the kids dump water all over the bathroom floor on a regular basis. I have a heavy duty relay that I'm planning to install on the water heater, and an electronic ball valve for the main water line coming into the house. These will both be connected to the Elk. I also ordered some $12 IR beam sensors off Amazon that I want to play with, I figured they might work well on the basement stairs to kick the light on before I get to the bottom of the stairs and trip the motion sensor. If I ever sell the house, all of the hardwired stuff (contacts, sensors) can be reused with another panel. Or they can buy the Elk panel. As UPB doesn't require a controller, they could use it with or without the Elk, for a fee, otherwise I'll just take the switches with me for the next place. Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk

 
 
This sounds impressive!  I've got such a hodgepodge going on right now that it is a bit frustrating.   I had Elk M1 in the old house with omnistat thermostats.  Yes, it worked ok.  But in this new house, I switched to Ecobee, and all I can say is wow.  Such a massive improvement in energy savings, monitoring, comfort, and WAF.  It even properly controls the humidifier to avoid frost on the windows and shows historical analysis online.   But, of course, ecobee doesn't work with Elk directly.   I don't expect Elk to catch up in functionality with all the standalone systems (like lutron, hue, and nest), but it would be nice if they tried to integrate with some of the more popular hubs.  Otherwise, they are quickly becoming irrelevant.  I now only use the Elk for mission critical automations such as ensuring driveway gates are closed.
 
 I do have the Homeseer UltraM1G plugin as well,  It is fast, and solid.    But that interface (including the new mobile interface), is embarassing, with an incredibly low WAF.  
 
With the money of ADT and Samsung behind the Smartthings (and their massive user base), I am going to bet that it is going to be the new standard for integration and automation (coupled with Siri/Alexa/Google).    There are thousands of developers, hundreds of free integrations (as opposed to the expensive homeseer ones), and a great scripting platform (webcore).    Efforts are underway currently by smartthings to move more automations off the cloud, as that improves reliability and speed.  But Elk and Homeseer really need to invest in building an official integration with newer platforms if they want to stay relevant.   At the minimum, they should tie in with Alexa and have decent apps.

 

[wkearney99]

Smart Things is a train wreck.  Their half-cloud/half-local implementation has been unreliable, at best.  Samsung buying them has done, what?  It'd have been far more helpful if they'd been bought up by someone that has large scale integration experience in cloud services.  Hubitat forked with the hub and it's still a work-in-progress.

I agree with you regarding the UI experience with HS3.  But with the advent of voice integration we've had zero need for any kind of screen UI interaction.  The trouble is UI development is a lot harder than it seems.  But it definitely needs doing for HS3. 

 

[hgupta1]

Smart Things is a train wreck.  Their half-cloud/half-local implementation has been unreliable, at best.  Samsung buying them has done, what?  It'd have been far more helpful if they'd been bought up by someone that has large scale integration experience in cloud services.  Hubitat forked with the hub and it's still a work-in-progress.

I agree with you regarding the UI experience with HS3.  But with the advent of voice integration we've had zero need for any kind of screen UI interaction.  The trouble is UI development is a lot harder than it seems.  But it definitely needs doing for HS3. 

 
 
I agree that the half cloud integration is certainly is not ideal, but I have barely had any issues.     It may have been down for me 20 minutes in the past year?  And it integrates with just about damn everything.  For Free.    Homeseer would have more users if they didn't charge so much for every single integration.   I have more issue with accessing my elk using the android app than I ever do with Smarthings.    Hubitat is nice in concept, but they don't have webcore yet.   
 
Voice integration helps, but unfortunately, it's not isn't ideal when you don't want to disturb anyone.   Speaking of... the Elk voices and the Homeseer voices just plain suck.   Once you are accustomed to natural voice of Alexa/Siri/Google, you can't go back to that 1980's computer synthesized crap.    Luckily, some smart people wrote software like "EchoSpeaks" for smartthings so that your amazon echo devices make voice announcements in their normal Alexa voice.    Homeseer has nothing even close to that yet.   
 
And beautiful GUI is still a requirement in my book.  I would love to have touchscreens (like ipads) mounted throughout the house showing me the important information at a glance.    Neither Elk nor Homeseer have anything that would look good on a wall.
 
I am not saying Smartthings is perfect.  But I do think Homeseer and Elk programmers would be wise to write some integration software for Smartthings if they want to stay relevant.  

 

[upstatemike]

Smartthings works with a lot of stuff but I notice their list leaves out some pretty common and popular integrations as well such as Nest and Sonos.

 

[hgupta1]

Smartthings works with a lot of stuff but I notice their list leaves out some pretty common and popular integrations as well such as Nest and Sonos.

 
There are hundreds of unofficial integrations written by third parties that have not been officially certified by Smartthings ,but still work really well..  For Sonos, there is a built in integration from smartthings lab included in the app.  It also has not yet been certified, but it worked well when I was using Sonos products. 
 
Almost every smartthings user with Nest devices uses NSTmanager.  I have Nest protect smoke detectors that are monitored in smartthings by NSTmanager. If a smoke alarm goes off, NSTmanager triggers my Z-wave relay connected to my Elk to notify the alarm company.   It's also been rock solid.   

 

[ano]

I remember the day when people argued that they would stick to typewriters instead of computers because they are more reliable and work if the power goes out. For those anti-cloud people out there, its getting harder and harder to defend your turf.  Sure security and a few things out there shouldn't be cloud, but most everything else, why not. 
 
When I open a door in my house, my OmniPro II detects it. A Raspberry Pi server polls the Omni to get its status, then sends it to a smartapp in SmartThings. Another smartapp in SmartThings composes the words to speak, and sends it off to another cloud server, that connects to Amazon's cloud server, that connects to my Amazon Echos, which in turn speaks "front door open." 
 
I can tell you I used to do the same thing completely on-site with HomeSeer 2. My current multi-cloud setup is more reliable, faster, and has a better sounding voice.  The HomeSeer setup would often freeze (a PC) or stop because a Windows Update was required.
 
SmartThings can do more than most people realize. If there is anything you don't think it can do, you probably haven't explored all its capabilities yet.

 

[LarrylLix]

That isn't Home Automation. Voice input and output is only monitoring and remote control. Home Automation based on anything cloud is  very silly and will almost always end in disaster.
 
Staircase lights that will not turn on because a router or switch somewhere is down, is a ridicuous concept, with either a "condo ransom fee" coming later, or a collapse of the bankrupt service.
 
Even worse is a frozen house because the stat feedack didn't turn on the heat.