suggestions and guidance

[irish]

Ok, so I'm not exactly sure if I should post in Home Automation or Home Security section. My original thought was for home automation although as I have read more I have started to consider switching out my current alarm system (a fairly simple system provided by a monitoring company) for a self-installed and home automation integrated solution. There are two issues causing me to hesitate at this idea however. The first is that this home is (hopefully) not where we plan to live indefinitely (hopefully not more than 5 years or so). As a result I am hesitant to put a lot of time, money, and effort into a system and components that I would then have to leave behind and start all over in a new house. The second issue is of course that my budget is limited. As a result of these two issues I am looking for simple and affordable ways to achieve my minimum requirements

My basic desires are as follows. I am looking to achieve them in the simplest and most reliable way possible.

24 hours a day
1) Sense motion outside surrounding my house
2) Alert me audibly inside the house of the motion outside (would be great to know specifically what zone, but not absolutely necessary)

At Dusk
All of the above items plus...
1) At dusk activate outside lighting (some to be on until a set time say ll pm and some to stay on until dawn)
2) At dusk activate simulation of presence routines for indoor lighting in either "away" mode or "night" mode (away would include bedroom areas while night would not)

After Dusk when motion is sensed outside
1) Activate outdoor floodlights
2) Possibly activate internal lighting sequences

Can you guys tell me what technologies I can use to achieve all of this? Specific recommendations of components would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

PS. I should probably note that my definition of "simulation of presence" is somewhat randomly turning on and off lights throughout the house for somewhat random periods of time. Possibly going as far as to turn on and off TVs and/or radios.

PPS. One concern I have is that two of the three primary light switches I am wanting to control are "stacked" (see attachment) as opposed to normal side-by-side switches. Can anybody tell me who makes an HA switch that can fit this?

 

[beelzerob]

I have the same switch setup for my bathroom fan, except it's 3 switches in the space of a single gang box....1 for fan, and 2 switches above it for light and night-light.

I don't believe there is an HA controllable switch that will fit into that area because I'm PRETTY sure that if you remove the cover plate, you'll see that those 2 switches are on a single device. So you wouldn't be able to replace just one of them.

What I plan to do is to pullout the switches, remove the gang box and add a gang to it, and then move that fan switch to it's own controllable relay switch that way. So in your case, you'd remove the 2-gang box there and put in a 3-gang box, with 2 normal switches and 1 controllable switch. Unless there's some reason you can't put a 3-gang box there....

 

[irish]

actually, I want to control both of the stacked switches, although separately (one is outdoor patio lights and one is outdoor floodlights)...I was kind of hoping to not have to change out the gang-box, but if that is the only way I will do so.

any suggestions one other details?

 

[Rupp]

There's always the inline X10 modules that will allow you to control the switch using X10 as well as the existing switches.
http://www.x10.com/pro/automation/xpdf.htm

24 hours a day
1) Sense motion outside surrounding my house
I do this now using a combination of X10 motion sensors and Z-Wave motion sensors. These motion sensors trigger HomeSeer to turn on lights in the area of the motion.

2) Alert me audibly inside the house of the motion outside (would be great to know specifically what zone, but not absolutely necessary)
When my Z-Wave motion sensor on the deck is activated HomeSeer speaks "Motion detected on deck" over my whole house audio system


At Dusk
All of the above items plus...
1) At dusk activate outside lighting (some to be on until a set time say ll pm and some to stay on until dawn)
2) At dusk activate simulation of presence routines for indoor lighting in either "away" mode or "night" mode (away would include bedroom areas while night would not)
After Dusk when motion is sensed outside
1) Activate outdoor floodlights
2) Possibly activate internal lighting sequences

Dusk and Dawn are built in triggers when using HomeSeer. So any device connected to HomeSeer can be activated. IE When motion is detected on my deck, in addition to the speech my deck flood lights are turned on if it's night time (another built in condition when using HomeSeer.

HomeSeer has a free 30 day trial so if you have a PC I would recommend giving it a try. http://www.homeseer.com/downloads

 

[irish]

Rupp,

I was just looking at HomeSeer earlier and was wondering if it would meet my needs. It looks like they have several levels of software, Basic, HS2, and Pro. Am I correct that you are referring to the HS2 level listed or would the Basic meet the requirements?

So it seems like I may be looking at the following

HomeSeer
Communication Interface
Motion Sensors (prefer wireless for easy of installation, recommendations on X-10 vs Insteon vs Z-Wave)
Replacement Light Switches & Outlets (again recommendations on X-10 vs Insteon vs Z-Wave)
Speakers for the audio alerts (any recommendations on discrete easy to install (heck plugin would be great))

 

[Rupp]

Irish,
HSBasic only works with Z-Wave devices but the mid level is the full blown HomeSeer which works with all protocols.

 

[Steve]

Irish - a few thoughts to consider...

1. If you are going to use HomeSeer (or an other software package) with your existing alarm panel and you wish to do things based on the system status, make sure the software you are considering has a driver for that alarm panel so you can get the information from it. Many of the cheap panels don't have external connectivity, so depending on what you have you may need to consider and alarm/HA system like the Elk.

2. Depending on your definitions of 'away' and 'night', etc be careful with your 'simulation of presence'. Typically night mode is used when you are home when you go to bed for the night. In that mode you do not want to do anything with your lights. If you do that is actually a signal to a thief that may be watching that you have some sort of automated stuff going on. The simulations have to be realistic, and lights going on and off all through the night isn't.

If cost is a huge factor, Premise seems to be recommended alot as a 'free' alternative and it make work for you if your needs are just basic motion sensing and light control.

 

[irish]

Steve,

Irish - a few thoughts to consider...

1. If you are going to use HomeSeer (or an other software package) with your existing alarm panel and you wish to do things based on the system status, make sure the software you are considering has a driver for that alarm panel so you can get the information from it. Many of the cheap panels don't have external connectivity, so depending on what you have you may need to consider and alarm/HA system like the Elk.

I haven't checked but I highly doubt my existing alarm panel will integrate. Doing things based on system status is on my "would be nice someday" list, but probably won't be soon and won't be in my current house. If I do move in this direction though I fully expect to be considering some type of purpose built/designed security/alarm/HA system like Elk.

2. Depending on your definitions of 'away' and 'night', etc be careful with your 'simulation of presence'. Typically night mode is used when you are home when you go to bed for the night. In that mode you do not want to do anything with your lights. If you do that is actually a signal to a thief that may be watching that you have some sort of automated stuff going on. The simulations have to be realistic, and lights going on and off all through the night isn't.

my current alarm system doesn't have a "night" mode, only "away" and "stay", as such, if neither provided any lighting features how exactly would "night" mode be different than "away" mode? I was thinking of "night" mode for use when going to bed for the night. I don't know that I would have lights going on and off all through the night, but if we go to bed early I might want it to do that until 11pm or something. I would think that would be realistic. Of course, my house isn't anything special, so a burglar casing the joint doesn't seem likely and I am more looking to deter opportunistic burglars.

If cost is a huge factor, Premise seems to be recommended alot as a 'free' alternative and it make work for you if your needs are just basic motion sensing and light control.

Thanks, I will check out Premise

 

[irish]

Irish,
HSBasic only works with Z-Wave devices but the mid level is the full blown HomeSeer which works with all protocols.

If I utilize Z-wave motion sensors, light switches, and outlets, would HSBasic be able to do everything I previously stated? Including the Audio announcements?

Wait...is there a Z-wave outdoor motion sensor? I live in Michigan so weather is a concern.

 

[Steve]

Steve,

Irish - a few thoughts to consider...

1. If you are going to use HomeSeer (or an other software package) with your existing alarm panel and you wish to do things based on the system status, make sure the software you are considering has a driver for that alarm panel so you can get the information from it. Many of the cheap panels don't have external connectivity, so depending on what you have you may need to consider and alarm/HA system like the Elk.

I haven't checked but I highly doubt my existing alarm panel will integrate. Doing things based on system status is on my "would be nice someday" list, but probably won't be soon and won't be in my current house. If I do move in this direction though I fully expect to be considering some type of purpose built/designed security/alarm/HA system like Elk.

2. Depending on your definitions of 'away' and 'night', etc be careful with your 'simulation of presence'. Typically night mode is used when you are home when you go to bed for the night. In that mode you do not want to do anything with your lights. If you do that is actually a signal to a thief that may be watching that you have some sort of automated stuff going on. The simulations have to be realistic, and lights going on and off all through the night isn't.

my current alarm system doesn't have a "night" mode, only "away" and "stay", as such, if neither provided any lighting features how exactly would "night" mode be different than "away" mode? I was thinking of "night" mode for use when going to bed for the night. I don't know that I would have lights going on and off all through the night, but if we go to bed early I might want it to do that until 11pm or something. I would think that would be realistic. Of course, my house isn't anything special, so a burglar casing the joint doesn't seem likely and I am more looking to deter opportunistic burglars.

If cost is a huge factor, Premise seems to be recommended alot as a 'free' alternative and it make work for you if your needs are just basic motion sensing and light control.

Thanks, I will check out Premise

Sorry, I assumed you wanted a tie in to your alarm based on #2 in At dusk. If you will be making your own modes so to speak then sure, anything is possible within the constraints of your software.

 

[irish]

Sorry, I assumed you wanted a tie in to your alarm based on #2 in At dusk. If you will be making your own modes so to speak then sure, anything is possible within the constraints of your software.

no apology necessary, if I do move forward with tying everything together then your assumption is correct, so your comments were still useful. of course if I tie it in it will be tied in all the time, not just at dusk. I'm curious though, let's assume that I was tying in my existing system which had a "night" mode. Couldn't I still pull the status from the alarm system and compare it to the current time to determine how to proceed with any simulation...if I don't tie the alarm in then I will be basically making custom modes.

 

[briankelly63]

I would use (and I do) and M1 Elk to do these things and more... no PC required. You can do a lot with rules, sensors and get a really first class alrm system in the process.... Brian

 

[Steve]

Sure, you can do whatever time rules your software allows. In the Elk (or similar) world, all of that is done in the panel, so you could write a rule like If System is Armed in Night Mode AND Time is after 8PM THEN ... as an example. Usually a software based systems will give you a little more control with times and timers but there are tradeoffs.

 

[irish]

I would use (and I do) and M1 Elk to do these things and more... no PC required. You can do a lot with rules, sensors and get a really first class alrm system in the process.... Brian

that is the response I was somewhat expecting, however it seems to run into concern number one in my original post, "...put a lot of time, money, and effort into a system and components that I would then have to leave behind and start all over in a new house..." in a few years

doesn't it?

 

[Rupp]

Irish,
HSBasic only works with Z-Wave devices but the mid level is the full blown HomeSeer which works with all protocols.

If I utilize Z-wave motion sensors, light switches, and outlets, would HSBasic be able to do everything I previously stated? Including the Audio announcements?

Wait...is there a Z-wave outdoor motion sensor? I live in Michigan so weather is a concern.

Yes all of those things are possible but you are correct that there are no out door Z-Wave motion sensors.