Swimming Pool and/or Spa automation

[Steve]

The heat shrink tubing won't act as an insulator and affect the temp readings? Would the chlorine not eat away at the heat shrink plastic? There is no way to use the PC probe mentioned? The wireless and floating stuff is cool and I used that a long time ago but the goal is to have things at the pool pad. The floater would just get destroyed being thrown around. That's why I like the PC probes - they can be easily put into the PVC anywhere on the pad you want - b4 or after solar, etc. Thanks.

 

[fleetz]

Steve,

From a earlier question, when ELKRP is online to the M1XEP, the M1XEP does not communicate to the outside world including emails. The reason is that settings could be in the process of being changed and the M1XEP could send bad information during the changing process. For that reason we chose not to allow the M1XEP to communicate to the outside world except for a command that says it is in programming mode. When the programming mode is completed and ELKRP signs off, a command is broadcast that says it is back online.

I recommend you put a piece of sealed heat shrink tubing on the temperature probe to insure water will not enter it.

I am working on a Oregon Scientific wireless interface for temperature probes and a floating temperture transmitter for pools and hot tubs. I do not have a time table of when it will be ready.

I need to add a command so that an external device can set the temperature probe information. That way a PC could set the temperature and you could display it on keypads or write rules using that information.

The current temperature probe is a 0 to 5V signal proportional to the temperature and calibrated for -60 deg F to 140 deg F.

Hi Spanky,

I was doing a search on the forum on swimming pool temperature monitoring....and look what I found!

The swimming pool I am putting in will have a solar collector on the roof where water can be pumped through to warm the pool temperature in the winter. Not that we get a real winter in the place I am building but the water can get cool.

I want to be able to monitor the pool temerature and switch in and out the collector pump under ELK rules. This is the application I was alluding to on my recent post "The new M1KAM ELK 1 Wire module?" (sorry about the length of the post!) http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=7151

Wireless monitoring would be neat what every happen and or where is the following currently at?

"I am working on a Oregon Scientific wireless interface for temperature probes and a floating temperture transmitter for pools and hot tubs. I do not have a time table of when it will be ready."

Didn't realise you were already on the job when I penned my post

Regards,

Fleetz

 

[shenandoah75]

Fleetz isn't the only one... similar application drove my interest in 1-wire as well!!!

I want more than just freeze protection. I want to mirror the functionality in the goldline solar controller so i need temps in the pool and at the panels so i can control the 24V valve via relay to enable/disable the flow to panels when i want the pool warmer or not

thx for bring this up here!
-brad

p.s. i can also use the pool temp to control a remote relay for my 400K btu propane heater too - which i try not to use much

p.s.s. Spanky, does that mean the interface simply accepts signals from remote sensors or would interface to it's parent device, something like the following via serial port?

http://www2.oregonscientific.com/shop/prod...scid=84&pid=83#

 

[shenandoah75]

Fleetz,

Have you thought about how you would achieve your requirements with elk's rules engine.... i've just been playing around and i don't think i can get what i want there...

We would need the ability to drive off temp change and check the delta between the sensors... maybe this could be done by setting counter values - does checking secure/unsecure on temp work for the driving event off a temp sensor?

whenever solarpaneltemp ?
then set solarpaneltemp counter = solarpaneltemp

whenever solarpaneltemp ?
then set pooltemp counter = pooltemp


but i don't think we have a way to compare the difference in counters, temps, nor temps... what i would really want in addition to the above would be something like the folowing which enables the panels when the temp difference is at least two degrees.

<some event - temp change/counter change>
when (solarpaneltemp (counter?)- pooltemp(counter?)) >= 2
and output 200 is on (solar enabled)
then turn solarvalve output on

- and -

and when solarpaneltemp - pooltemp < 2
then turn solarvalve output off



just don't want to get my hopes up if it can't be done...
-brad




p.s. another option might be to tie a dedicated thermostat for the pool and bypass the elk (not ideal). But the Hai remote probes appear to be indoor use only and doubt they would offer real complex rules...

 

[cliffs]

FWIW: I have had 3 of the Oregon Scientific floating pool temp devices. All of them failed shortly because of seal failure and water entry destroying the device. Two of the devices were replaced under warranty. They seem like a neat device but very poorly made.

I too am looking at a way to remotely monitor pool and spa temp. It needs to be some wireless way because of the location it is impossible to run wires. I did use a Oregon Scientific device that had a wired extension on the temp. probe and it did work(until the pack rat ate the wire). Did not look very professional with the wire dangling on the side of the pool.

Cliff s

 

[dbinaz]

I have the Oregon Scientific WMR968 and 2 of the wireless pool and spa sensor. Working great so far.
But I would really love to thave the abilty to have Elk get and display the data wirelessly.

 

[shenandoah75]

Cliffs,

If we can tap into the pvc lines with one-wire probes for example (which are ok to expose to water in the first place), seal, etc - is wireless really a concern?

Once a solution (any solution wired or not) for the Elk exists, I plan on dropping all my relay/probes/low voltage wiring into a single box by the pump and forking out from there. It should be a little less clutter than i have with goldline, timer and conduit running out there now.

Whether the two temp sensors are wireless or not, i'll need the low voltage stuff for the valve/contactor/propane heater anyway...

-brad

 

[cliffs]

In my case it is almost impossible to run LV wiring to my equipment due to the location. I switch my filter pump, water feature pump, heater, spa pump, Salt-Chlorine Gen., CO2 valve and spa and pool lights with X10 from my M1G.

You can measure Spa temp. at the input of the heater as most times the heater is on heating the spa when you want to know the temp. Pool temp is another story, because the pump is not always running the probe needs to be in the pool itself. In the skimmer would be OK. The difficulty is running the wires to these locations. Short of jackhammering a lot of concrete it isn't too practical. This is why the need for wireless.

The Oregon Scientific device would be fine if it didn't leak and destroy itself. I am sure they have had many of them returned for the same reason, although I did have a problem of it loosing contact with the base station at times. My pool is only 6 feet from the house so the distance is not really that far.

It would be nice if Elk could come up with a wireless temp. device, I can think of many uses for such a device. Since they a coming out with a wireless receiver, maybe in the future we will see one.

Here is AZ getting a accurate outside temp. is not easy due to the re-radiation of the concrete patio and the stuccoed house. In my previous house I hid the temp. sender in a bush away from the house to try to get a accurate reading. Also, the temp. sender must not be in the sun at any time.

Cliff s

 

[Steve]

I'm also still looking for a way to get pool temp. Wireless is great, but I can get a wire out to the pool pad as well. I really like the sensors made for PVC that just go on with a hose clamp, it is quick and easy. Goldline makes one and RCS sells one. The problem is getting it 'translated' for the Elk to understand, but I may explore a PC/CQC option as well. Sure, the pool itself is most accurate, but my pump pretty much runs all day (9-5) 365 days a year, so the PVC option would be fine for me. I still think the Elk sensor in a pool probe/PVC package would be ideal.

 

[znelbok]

I was looking at the solar hot water system about a month ago. It has a temp probe for the inlet and the collectors.

It should be feasible to use these to measure you pool temp - not a floating device, but in the PVC pipework.

These were screw in sensors and of course are rated for water.

At a guess, I would say they change their resistance based on temperature, so using the elk (should) is a no brainer.

Mick

 

[fleetz]

The pool probe in the PVC would be ideal for me too. I intend to run a LV conduit with a couple of pairs of LV fig 8 and Cat5e hoping for a solution in the forseeable. Of course if a wireless comes along then bonus.

I still believe the new wireless ELK are bringing out could provide a nice solution. The receiver being enrolled on the M1 and either a "Oregon Scientific" style floating pool sensor sending an update say every 15 or 30 minutes or a hardwired one would be neat. It would not flood the data bus and the batteries assuming some AA batteries wereused could hold the TX up for 6 months or more.

I have been doing some beta testing on the Aussie wireless version which is designed and manufacured by Ness Security here in Aus Ness are ELK's partner downunder, the system is very robust. Not sure what frequency the US will go out on but ours is around 304Mhz (303.85 to be exact) and I was able to get around 30 metres (approx 90 feet) from my study to the outside world. So in a typical pool situation the wireless would be an ideal solution to most existing pool installations. Be it a floating TX device or another wireless TX that would couple to a PVC mounted thermostat.

On the rules programming to control the solar collector pump/float diverter what shenandoah75 says is very valid. The ideal senario would be to able to control temp in both directions but unless you have pool heating and cooling it wouldn't be possible. I am only wanting to sit the temp of the pool within a range of say 24C to 29C, it is not very practical to aim for very tight temp control when you have 50000 litres of water and the elements in the mix. Everything will be slow to respond when you either switch the flow on or off from the solar system. Good reason to have the sensor sending every 15 or 30 minutes.

Cheers,

Fleetz

 

[fleetz]

I was looking at the solar hot water system about a month ago. It has a temp probe for the inlet and the collectors.

It should be feasible to use these to measure you pool temp - not a floating device, but in the PVC pipework.

These were screw in sensors and of course are rated for water.

At a guess, I would say they change their resistance based on temperature, so using the elk (should) is a no brainer.

Mick

Hi Mick,

What brand of HWS?

Cheers,

Fleetz

 

[shenandoah75]

Ok per Murphy's suggestion on the water heater thread, it's easy if you don't try to get as fancy with the 2 degree differencial in the rules.

WHENEVER EVERY 30 sec
THEN set t-panel-counter = t-panel temp

WHENEVER EVERY 30 sec
AND t-pool < t-panel-counter
AND t-pool < t_desired-temp-custom-setting
THEN solar-value ON

WHENEVER EVERY 30 sec
AND t-pool => t-panel-counter
THEN solar-valve OFF

WHENEVER EVERY 30 sec
AND t-pool => t_desired-temp-custom-setting
THEN solar-value OFF


The desired temp (custom setting) can be set via cqc/ML and the others can all be monitored. The control of the Hayward propane heater is a bbreeze as well.

now i just need temp sensors that will work in the pvc and on the really hot panel

-brad

 

[DavidL]

This would be great usage of the new ML1WirePro plugin for MainLobby. This, when tied to also new "MLDatabase" plugin allows for logging and reporting of temp and how long relays are on (clean the filter every X hours that the pump is running etc).

 

[fleetz]

I was looking at the solar hot water system about a month ago. It has a temp probe for the inlet and the collectors.

It should be feasible to use these to measure you pool temp - not a floating device, but in the PVC pipework.

These were screw in sensors and of course are rated for water.

At a guess, I would say they change their resistance based on temperature, so using the elk (should) is a no brainer.

Mick

Hi Mick,

What brand of HWS?

Cheers,

Fleetz

Hi Mick,

Wondering did you progress any further with the temp sensor?

Still looking for a solution to get the pool temp into M1. I am also intrested in the HWS sensor too as I will be installing solar too.

Cheers,

Fleetz