Temp sensor room best location

Eric,

That's funny, I'm a veteran and didn't even know it was Veteran's Day. I never get it off. Had mail out and wondered why it was still there later. Doh!

Wiring: Yes, I know it all works out in the end. I was just thinking that if the pin numbers on the plug and jack (across the top) were reversed on the 'how to wiring page'. It might avoid confusion when looking at the schematic. ? You have been working on this longer than me. Maybe I will see something I am not now when I get the parts.

Can't wait to get them this weekend. :)
 
Okay, the passion subsides and reality sets in as I actually looked for spots to put the sensors.

May I suggest that you don't cool down quite yet ? ;-)

Running the wire is a large proportion of the total cost, labor and hassle of hard-wired sensor installation. If you run CAT5 to each location, eventually your resourceful mind will urge you to do something with those 'unused' conductors and that ardor will return ...

And so what I've been calling THOL ( Temperature Humidity Occupancy and Lighting ) measurement may be something to consider, even even only for planning purposes. The "Light " measurement might provide the basis for (eg) daylighting control of the light subsytem for reasons of both aesthetics and energy efficiency. The "Humidity" function can be extended with different sensors such as water leak detection (laundry rom) or rain detection (for window skylight closure) etc. And so on.

One handy location for a THOL sensor is in the Occupancy sensor itself. For example, HomeSeer recently introduced a wireless (Z-wave ) implementation called the HSM100 Multi-Sensor that location can also serve as a location for a multiplexor or other fan-out to multiple sensors.

I've created a family of schematics and printed circuit boards that provide task-specific signal conditioning (" 4-input Analog conditioning buffer with 1-wire support " ) of multiple environmental sesnors

The PCBs allow for sensor data to be read and distributed by multiple signal systems, especially _simultaneous_ 0-10vdc analog and Maxim / Dallas Semi 1-wire. The simulatneous distribution facilitates use of the sensor data by both action-oriented, real-time, rule-based HA processing (eg CQS, HomeSeer) and software optimized for data logging, storage, retrieval and display.

Partial description and downloads here: http://www.econtrol.org/diy_projects.htm
The circuit diagrams (schematics) and PCBs can be modfied using the free (for non-profit use) versions of Eagle software. I'll post more files and versions time permitting.

HTH ... Marc
 
Sorry to jump in guys, but I was looking into doing something similar to this. I had just a quick question.

Do I really just need to run 1 cat5 wire for the sensors? If I want to power the sensors separately, I can just run the power through the cat5, right?

Thanks!!
 
hult
You might be right, I might want to add some stuff later. I'm not really sure right now how much. Monitor temps in house, humidity inside near thermostat and outside, control the hvac better than the programmable thermostat that doesn't work with my work schedule, with possible web interface for remote control. That is probably going to be the extent of it. Wouldn't mind monitoring the power usage total, but I am not sure if want to go that far. Right now my meter base is mechanical not sure how a break the beam sensor is going to work all year. And I haven't tested it yet, but only looks like there might be one little hole that I might be able to detect at the bottom, otherwise it is pretty closed up. Then my only other choice is to put a split core current transformers on there mains and still not sure want to do it.

Then like I said in previous post. Would like to add only a few X10 light controls. But that requires a little more looking for long term. Why cause the computer has 2 serial ports, my main computer doesn't. So I need to make sure what ever I put in place can easily be changed to serial to usb if need to. I could also use the same port (suppose to be able to) and just make sure not doing sensor readings when telling X10 to do something. Which is something I can change in the software.

I'm pretty much trying to KISS. Some monitoring / control without going over board.


Snypez
Do I really just need to run 1 cat5 wire for the sensors? : Ya, one is all you need. The are plenty of wires on the cat5 to bring what you need to the sensors and the hobby-boards. I seen on digitemp the guy used 4 conductor telephone cable. But I think it is recommended to use cat5 mainly cause it has better noise rejection (twisted pairs). And if you want to use any of the boards from hobby-boards you will pretty much need to use cat5. If your only going to run 1 cat 5 and do a few measurements, you could skip the hub and go straight to the rs-232 adapter. I am trying to take hults approach though and thinking of the future and if want to add something.

Note, you don't have to run power to the sensors either. You could use parasitic power if you want, but that depends on you. You can read some of the earlier discussions to get a feel for that. Most stuff I have read on this says you should be fine with parasitic power, but it might take more time to read each sensors,... you might have to add a diode to the end of the run to prevent a reflection that causes sensor reading errors. I am not sure, but I assume that isn't a problem if you connnect them in powered mode instead of parasitic.

If I want to power the sensors separately, I can just run the power through the cat5, right? The hobby-boards are designed to bring power to your sensors if you want, if not remove the jumper on them.

I am going to run power to mine thru the cat5. If you get the transformer for the master hub on hobby-boards it is 1A, which should be plenty of current. But that depends on your requirements. You start adding relays and other 1 wire stuff, it might not be enough and you will have to start powering some of those unit separately. Eric describes it on his website: Hobby Boards How To's
 
Thanks for the information! I'm looking over the how-to's now. Yeah, I feel dumb, everything is explained very well there. Thanks again!
 
Sorry to jump in guys, but I was looking into doing something similar to this. I had just a quick question.

Do I really just need to run 1 cat5 wire for the sensors? If I want to power the sensors separately, I can just run the power through the cat5, right?

Thanks!!
Right. Most sensors are happy with a few milliamps or fraction thereof. As I understand it, Hobby-Boards has a handy-dandy, standardized way of providing that.

For more power, you can use your own power supply which could be a simple, battery-backed 13.8vdc with current limiting to ~300mA or less on any given conductor pair. ABIK, one can't run 300mA on all the pairs simultaneously and stay within accepted US standards. I'm not up-to-date on the current (pun intended) regulatory status of using multiple pairs.

The amount of power (watts) one can distribute over CAT5 is limited by both by current and voltage. So for more power, you can distribute a higher voltages (eg) 48vdc with a DC-DC converter. Stay under 50vdc to minimize conflicts with the U.S. National Electrical Code. The IEEE 802.3af standard for Power Over Ethernet (POE) is limited to ~15.4 watts, which translates into ~13watts at the End device. But a higher wattage version of 35-50 watts (POE+ / POEPlus) is somewhere in the discussion and approval stages.

So there is enough power over Cat5 even now for excellent background music and PA. Isolated DC-DC converters can be pricey if purchased new, but are often available for nickels on the dollar on eBay. I've accumulated a substantial collection including several dozen 48vdc --> +/-15vdc which are ideal for many traditional remote sensors and amplifiers. I've also designed a multiple output PCB that provides for individualized current limiting. I'll post the files and other resources when time permits.

HTH ... Marc
 
Got my stuff in the mail today! :) Post Office tracking is the worst I have ever seen. All it ever showed until they delivered it was that it had been accepted from Hobby Boards. I checked it this morning and same thing. Today it came and now they changed to delievered. Useless.

Anyway. Hooked it up, after crimping a test RJ45 on and plugging it into a breadboard to a temp sensor:

# digitemp -s /dev/ttyS0 -i
DigiTemp v3.2.0 Copyright 1996-2003 by Brian C. Lane
GNU Public License v2.0 - http://www.brianlane.com
Turning off all DS2409 Couplers
...
Searching the 1-Wire LAN
1F66BD0400000065 : DS2409 MicroLAN Coupler
1F5EBD0400000029 : DS2409 MicroLAN Coupler
1F67BD0400000052 : DS2409 MicroLAN Coupler
103817550108001E : DS1820 Temperature Sensor
ROM #0 : 103817550108001E
Wrote .digitemprc

# digitemp -a
DigiTemp v3.2.0 Copyright 1996-2003 by Brian C. Lane
GNU Public License v2.0 - http://www.brianlane.com
Nov 16 16:31:49 Sensor 0 C: 20.06 F: 68.11


So reading it fine in the basement. Too bad I am painting the bathroom right now. So can't start laying the wire out. Well going to take a bit of time to edit udevrules to give user permission to read the sensors.

But the good thing is got it and was no trouble to set up.
 
Got my stuff in the mail today! :) Post Office tracking is the worst I have ever seen. All it ever showed until they delivered it was that it had been accepted from Hobby Boards. I checked it this morning and same thing. Today it came and now they changed to delievered. Useless.

Are you confusing USPS Tracking with USPS Delivery Confirmation? As best I know, Tracking of domestic mail is available only for Express Mail.

USPS Delivery Confirmation Service is available for a First Class Mail, Priority Mail, and other services and costs between $0.00 and $0.85. Delivery Confirmation , as the name implies, consists in exactly the service that you describe receiving. It is an excellent value in my experience.

... Marc
 
According to their website it clearly says: Track & Confirm

I have a tracking number and go there and they tell me just like I said. Basically nothing until it was in my hand. If that is what your referring to as their Online Delivery Confirmation, they my friend need to change the wording, cause it clearly wasn't Tracking.
It does say on there: To check on the delivery status of your mailing, enter your label or receipt number in the space provided. Which could imply you will know when it is in your hand when you check out our website and enter your number. Honey, this is the package, the USPS says so. Woo, I was almost afraid to open it till they confirmed it.

Maybe UPS and FedEx share a patent on clear and coinsise and actually tracking so USPS is using misleading labels. But in most peoples minds, tracking infers details of it's progress from start to finish.
The only way that would be beneficial to me is if I came home and checked and they said they delivered it and I didn't have it. Which can happen with my mailman, but hasn't lately. I guess after about 10 times of putting other peoples mail back in the box with a note it don't belong here worked, or we got another mailman.

Anyway, I have two sensors in place, but think came up with a better way of connecting them for quick change out and remove,... So need to get some new parts.

Did notice one thing, Pilot light on furnace keeps the plenum about 2 deg higher than upstairs, even out 15 feet away from pilot. And by morning with no furnace activity was 5 deg difference. I didn't put it right by the furnace, but down the line some. The other was really tricky, but got it behind the thermostat, almost right behind the thermostat sensor. Was using digitemp, but because want to add some stuff it doesn't do later, going to move over to OWFS I think. So will get that going while waiting for my new parts and some more sensors.
 
According to their website it clearly says: Track & Confirm

I have a tracking number and go there and they tell me just like I said. Basically nothing until it was in my hand. If that is what your referring to as their Online Delivery Confirmation, they my friend need to change the wording, cause it clearly wasn't Tracking.
It does say on there: To check on the delivery status of your mailing, enter your label or receipt number in the space provided. Which could imply you will know when it is in your hand when you check out our website and enter your number. Honey, this is the package, the USPS says so. Woo, I was almost afraid to open it till they confirmed it.

Maybe UPS and FedEx share a patent on clear and coinsise and actually tracking so USPS is using misleading labels. But in most peoples minds, tracking infers details of it's progress from start to finish.
The only way that would be beneficial to me is if I came home and checked and they said they delivered it and I didn't have it. Which can happen with my mailman, but hasn't lately. I guess after about 10 times of putting other peoples mail back in the box with a note it don't belong here worked, or we got another mailman.

Once again. Apparently the service that was purchased by your shipper was "Delivery Confirmation.

The service of obvious utility to the sender who receives -- surprised? -- confirmation of delivery -- but, as you have discovered, is of little use to the recipient.

The experience that you relate is _exactly_ the service that USPS sells as "Delivery Confirmation". If you want more complete tracking, that too is apparently available with Express Mail, but that is not the service that your shipper purchased -- which was "Delivery Confirmation". More $ gets you more service.

Mislabelling?
ROTFL ! ;-)

Here's the labelling. It says "Delivery Confirmation" both right-side up and (literally) sideways.

How could it be more clearly or better expressed to someone who wants to understand?

http://www.fpm.iastate.edu/postal_parcel/S..._deliv_conf.jpg

... Marc
 
Mislabelling?
ROTFL ! ;-)

Here's the labelling. It says "Delivery Confirmation" both right-side up and (literally) sideways.

How could it be more clearly or better expressed to someone who wants to understand?
Clearly you are just wanting to make an issue of this. lol
I was informed by a constant ebayer that yes, it is mainly for the sender.
But you are clearly wrong, based on the information I was sent:
From email, tracking number removed:
Additional Information
Tracking Number: removed
You can track your package at http://trkcnfrm1.smi.usps.com/PTSInternetW...o?origTrackNum=removed
You click on that link and says: (Note if you click above link without the number is goes to a different webpage than one goes to from email.)
trackNconfirm.png
So you can say
It says "Delivery Confirmation" both right-side up and (literally) sideways. How could it be more clearly or better expressed to someone who wants to understand?
all you want, but it didn't and it don't. On the email and USPS webpage it went to, there is nothing and I repeat NOTHING about "Delivery Confirmation". The only reason it even has delivered on the website is because that is the status after the fact. That wasn't there before, incase you want to make an issue of that also. And your little link to the USPS delivery confirmation label. There is nothing like that on the box and I signed for nothing. Enough said, end of conversation on my end about it. If you want to continue it, then continue the discussion with yourself. Because you'll probably still say your right and you weren't even there. I also noticed you hijacked the thread.
 
I did not want to get in the middle of this, but you are both right. The same website is used for both. If the sender purchased Delivery Confirmation you use the same website 'Track AND Confirm' but it only shows when the item is delivered as David experienced. If you purchased actual tracking it will update more often. But USPS does not offer full tracking for first class or priority mail, so you will never have the granularity like you do with UPS or Fedex.

Marc, imho I think you came across a bit harsh and David, you are right, the USPS site stinks for daily tracking of a multiday delivery, but then again they simply don't do that. In your case you were using the Confirm portion of the Track and Confirm site.

I'm sure Marc did not mean to come across as a big meanie so lets just get along and back on topic... Sorry, I know I am not a mod, but I hate to see confrontation or disrespect in this community.
 
so how is it going with your project?

I am using the hobbyboards master hub and have the temps integraged into my homeseer...

i can help out on some ideas on how to mount them to the walls...

I will run through a quick wiring of how I did it...

1. I took the hobbyboards and plugged serial into computer (duh)
2. took a cat 5 wire and cut one end off
3. crimpted a rj11 on the other end (can get pinout if you want)
4. plugged rj11 into dual wall plate (one of the ports)
5. crimped a ds18s20 into a rj11 plug and clicked it into the second open port
6. on the back I jumped the following:
6.a. red to red
6.b. green to green
6.c. yellow to yellow
6.d. red to yellow
7. placed cat5 blue on green screw in back of wall plate
8. placed cat5 blue with white on yellow in back of wall plate
9. ran to next sensor

the point of jumping red and yellow is to get the temp sensor to power up. usually you short the outside 2 pins..well this effectively does that...

here is a link on another site with some info...
http://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=124299


with my above wiring.. it is easy to crimp in the ds18s20...
follow this... lay rj11 on table with nub up. lay ds18s20 with flat end down slide ds18s20 in and make the 3 pins the first 3 in the connector to the left.

so the roundness of the temp sensor will be up with the rj11 clip part. Hard to explain....
 
I still have to wait for my new parts (ordering tomorrow) and found a bit of time before leaving for holiday up North to the land of ice and snow.
That is a very interesting way of doing the sensor wiring. I'm glad you posted it, could you post some pictures closeup?

I have pretty much figured out how I am going to wire it. I will be using RJ45's cause I got rid of my land line and am only keeping what is already there. I am probably also going to replace, except for the kitchen, the other phone jack with a quick port and add an RJ45. Why, well, most of the hobby boards are setup for that connector and I can fix the ports up for ethernet, just put the sensor in the hole and feed it out the back hole, crimp in place. Sensor is out the way and pretty much out of sight. Then if/when I move I can just remove the sensors from those ports and have it wired for ethernet or someone could add/change it to phone line if they wanted. And like sda mentioned it is open to room air also.

That only works for part of my locations though. I still have attic, outside, basement, thermostat area. I put the first two sensors in hardwired. It was pretty easy, but I decided I wanted a more modular and easily replaced/changed/removed system. Here is my new idea, I tested it on a inline coupler I had. They come apart. So for every location that isn't using a ethernet quick port in the ground level rooms I will be using and RJ45 inline coupler. Splice my three wires (I am setting this hole thing up as powered) into the coupler. Drill a small hole to feed the wires out. Not sure how long going to make the wires. I would like a few inches at least. Here is a fast picture without heatshrink,... but you get the idea. Takes a little work to setup, but it's bench work and can do them all at once.
inline_sensor.jpg
That will work for all the other sensors and allows me to have some movement of where to put the sensor if need to move it a little bit away from the run.
In the kitchen I am going to come from the closet in the frontroom and poke the sensor from the closet into the kitchen stairwell. Hide it by the picture hangng there.

Then there is the thermostat. It is a little harder, but after putting hardwired sensor there, figure out a better way. I wanted a humidity sensor there also. So getting humidity/temp sensor board with case. Removing the humidity sensor and temp from the board and extending them out about 6-10 inches i think is all I need. I'll crimp some RJ45's on the cat5 and the humidity/temp board will rest on the laundry shoot box behind the wall. The sensors will poke out from behind the themostat on the wall. I have a temp sensor already there so modularizing this should be easier than it was getting it all there the first time. Thanks to fishing line.

So I only have two in place right now and going to do this to them also. Finally saw the furnace come on today and the one in the duct about 15 feet away got up to around 132 F. I was only recording every 15 minutes though. I'll get all the software logging,... finished when get the hardware done more. One of the reasons for doing this is to look for degradation of system and do some preventative maintenance. So will need to get some baselines.

Another cool thing is might be able to keep using digitemp. They seem to be supporting the devices on the relay board and the humidity board now.

So won't have the parts till after Thanksgiving and then going to build everything up first, except for cable runs. But it will be easier to work on and add/fix/remove,.. parts. And with the 6 channel master hub I have lots of room to do other stuff. But except for infrared sensor to read my outside meter and possibly control a few lights. I really don't want to do much more. Oh wait, I might add a x10 camera to front door? Catch who ever ripped my 'no soliciting' sticker off. Luckily I have lots more.
 
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