Thermostat Options for Elk (again)

[AceCannon]

3) Aprilaire 8870. Never heard a complaint about the products, very good reputation. However, additional hardware is needed(protocol adapter and distribution panel) to connect to the M1XSP, raising the cost beyond other options. Thermostats are expensive, but can control almost any furnace(2 stage heating and cooling, heat pump or conventional, lots of control adjustments, etc). Great option if you want reliability and compatibility with almost every furnace, but a tad expensive if you have a simple furnace or only need 1 thermostat. Also does not have an easy way to display outdoor temperature except via the message line.

I have found really good pricing on Aprilaire products by being patient and using Ebay. I found a new 8811 protocol adapter for very cheap.

Also, I got a new distribution panel on Ebay - interestingly it happened to include FOUR new 8870 thermostats, not mentioned in the title line of the auction. $330 final price.

(A quick "completed listings" search just now shows a lot of 3 Aprilaire 8870's went for $202.50 on 3/17/09 (link) granted these were used. . )

 

[Steve]

Yea, sorry if I misread that. The XEP can ONLY go on the onboard serial port so that's done. For anything else, lighting, hvac, etc you need a serial expander, m1xsp that goes on the RS-485 bus. Once you get an M1XSP then you can have stats on that. And you can have 4 xsp with stats for a total of 16. But you still need the XSP even for just 1. The XSP is what has all the firmware for stats, it would not work off the main board even without an XEP.

 

[mstarks01]

Thanks, everyone for the help. I have learned:

1. The RC-80 should be compatible with the Elk, as long as I have the M1-XSP (which I do) and am willing to hack together the connections (which I am)
2. Nobody has indicated that, functionally, the Omnistat 1000 would meet my needs better. But it is a very nice looking unit.
3. I can use the M1-XEP (ethernet module) connected directly to the Elk and the RC-80 connected to the M1-XSP, which in turn is connected to the RS-485 bus on the Elk.

Please feel free to correct me if I got something wrong.

 

[JayH]

I won't recommend the RCS t-stat. I bought two for a client from tips on this board. I had to wait forever to get them. After installation the HO changed one of the systems to a zoned system. I changed out one of the controllers for a zoned controller and added another stat. Again, I waited a long time to get them. During discussions with RCS I was told their outside temp sensor would be seen on the Elk M1 virtual keypad. So I ordered one. After receiving the wrong OS sensor I installed the correct sensor only to find out that it is not compatible with the Elk. So now I have to get the Elk sensor to accomplish what my customer wanted. I think there is a garage somewhere where this guy makes this stuff when it is ordered, (or when he gets around to it) and they will tell you anything to sell something. I thought I was going to like the RCS T-stat and ordered one early on for myself. At the time, I thought I should try another manuf. and since then I really wish I had. I liked the look of the RCS but I will not use them again. Wow, I have been wanting to vent that for awhile. Unless others strongly recommend the RCS I would stay away from it. Good luck, I'd like to know which one you choose.
CDC

Were you buying directly from the manufacturer? Most distributors have these items in stock and ready to ship today. RCS is an established company with a wide product offering, definitely not a garage. I think you need to find a better distribution channel. May I recommend automated outlet, worthington or setnetpro. Give them a call and I'm sure they will help you out.

Another tip, when buying for a customer, always call around to check stock status. Usually your expertise and hardware mark-ups are a big portion of the bid price so it is better to get everything quickly than to save a few dollars on hardware. Helps customer satisfaction and helps you optimize your time.

I'd like to draw a line in between as a long-time RCS user that has also been lied to by Michael & Bruce (Owner, Tech Support Manager of RCS) but still like their products over the others.

In May 2000 I purchase direct from them a pre-Version 1 TR36, ZC6R and 2x TS36. These were not in distribution channels yet but I was dealing with a 30yr old house that had a very bad split design and needed absolute control over some aspects to survive the 2nd summer in this house. (I have since redone both systems and the return air issues that created the problem).

I purchased them AT RETAIL with the understanding that (1) I would provide feedback and (2) they would provide me with the updates to the features that were ADVERTISED but not available yet on the pre-release firmware. I provided feedback every 3-4 months for the first year or two then kept in contact to see when final updates would be available so I could "tune" the control units and fix RCSLink1 comm problems where it "stopped" talking to the tstats.

They finally informed me in late 2004/2005 that they had to redesign the hardware because they couldn't make it all work in the current hardware platform. New hardware, RCS Link2 and more features were promised. (Yes, 5 years)

As time went on they stopped returning emails and finally told me after I asked repeatedly then offered to purchase the new hardware (with a trade in) at a significantly reduced cost - they wouldn't do a trade-in and I should just go purchase all new gear from a distributor.

I still like RCS best over the others (I looked hard at AprilAire when it was Enerzone), it helped me get through a couple summers but I kept up my part, feedback I sent appears to be in the final product but the product I have doesn't meet what they advertised, Michael has effectively told me to "punt" regarding agreements they made prior to my purchase and I have a hard time spending $800 to replace the zone controller, single and 3 tstats even though they don't work directly with Elk (or others) today because of protocol changes. While Bruce isn't completely in the clear, the last few lack-of-responses he has deferred to Michael because he had to make the final call.

I can't say "Don't buy RCS", but if it remotely doesn't work as expected don't expect anything from the company. Return the product.

 

[icellama21]

I won't recommend the RCS t-stat. I bought two for a client from tips on this board. I had to wait forever to get them. After installation the HO changed one of the systems to a zoned system. I changed out one of the controllers for a zoned controller and added another stat. Again, I waited a long time to get them. During discussions with RCS I was told their outside temp sensor would be seen on the Elk M1 virtual keypad. So I ordered one. After receiving the wrong OS sensor I installed the correct sensor only to find out that it is not compatible with the Elk. So now I have to get the Elk sensor to accomplish what my customer wanted. I think there is a garage somewhere where this guy makes this stuff when it is ordered, (or when he gets around to it) and they will tell you anything to sell something. I thought I was going to like the RCS T-stat and ordered one early on for myself. At the time, I thought I should try another manuf. and since then I really wish I had. I liked the look of the RCS but I will not use them again. Wow, I have been wanting to vent that for awhile. Unless others strongly recommend the RCS I would stay away from it. Good luck, I'd like to know which one you choose.
CDC

Were you buying directly from the manufacturer? Most distributors have these items in stock and ready to ship today. RCS is an established company with a wide product offering, definitely not a garage. I think you need to find a better distribution channel. May I recommend automated outlet, worthington or setnetpro. Give them a call and I'm sure they will help you out.

Another tip, when buying for a customer, always call around to check stock status. Usually your expertise and hardware mark-ups are a big portion of the bid price so it is better to get everything quickly than to save a few dollars on hardware. Helps customer satisfaction and helps you optimize your time.

I can't say "Don't buy RCS", but if it remotely doesn't work as expected don't expect anything from the company. Return the product.

I am not vouching for RCS's engineering support. Although your experience does not sound like fun, I don't believe it has much relevance to the typical DIY reading this. The current product has an established feature set, and has been tested by many customers. It is available immediately in stock at a local distributor. If it doesn't work, return it like any piece of hardware. If you need assistance, hopefully they will help with the install through their customer service department. I have not heard of any DOA problems with RCS stats, so I don't see how this is different from any company. I don't think many people are buying the current product hoping it will be firmware upgradable in the future, they are buying it for its current features. And it is not very common to buy pre-production prototypes either.

We have to be careful here not to take personal grudges from our own experiences and extrapolate them to the wider company's reputation. We have all had a particular scenario that did not work out well, or that we feel was not handled well. What is important is if this is relevant to a wider audience, or just our personal frustration with a unique situation. What you are saying sheds light on the level of engineering collaboration that RCS uses, but nothing about their customer service. The insteon thread is full of stories of end-user anger, but I have yet to hear any about RCS. I have been spurned by beta/pre-production promises too, but never have those experiences been carried into the technical support or customer service areas for shipping products. Usually different people and simplified policies(ship it back, get a new one, etc).

 

[CDC]

I did purchase the RCS equip. from 2 of the distributors listed above. At the time Iordered, I did check stock and all were out of stock, "factory back ordered, will be here any day now". Familiar BS. I am glad to hear that my experience is not typical. Functionally the t-stats seem to work well, and I still think they look better. There has been an issue where the HO complains that the t-stats revert to a different setting on there own. We have been unable to duplicate the issue when on site (or via virtual) but this doesn't mean it isn't happening. We have removed all Elk rules involving the RCS and verified no RCS programming would change the settings, but the HO still says it happens. pilot error?

Also, the reply stating that the RCS Zoned controller is not compatible with the Elk is incorrect. The 2 T-stats show up individually on the Elk w/ full functionallity. (except the Outside sensor (OS5)). The panel and XEP haves the newest versions of firmware.

CDC