UPB dimmer and LED lighting

mikefamig

Senior Member
FYI
 
I just got an email from PCS this morning with news about a new product. They are now selling a 10k ohm resistor that they claim will help their UPB dimmer switch to dim an LED bulb from full brightness to fully off smoothly with no flickering or other problems. The resistor is installed in parallel across the load at the switch and claims to only use 1.4 watts of additional power.
 
Has anyone seen this done? Does it work well with PCS and/or SA switches?
 
Mike.
 
Just looking at that email ....interesting stuff ...here going baby steps with the LED lighting..here is a copy and paste of the email...curious what the load is on the 10K resistor. (bleeder resistor).
 
Looks a bit like the resistor has sharp edges..used these a few years back playing with some early cree LED lamps.
 
ceramicresistor.jpg
 
Email title: New ILR-10K From PCS - LED Fixture/Bulb Solution
Date: FRI 3/11/2016
 
New ILR-10K From PCS
 
PCS has created a solution for your LED fixtures and bulbs having issues turning off completely and flickering at certain dim levels. We have found that by inserting a small load resistor (ILR-10K) in parallel with the LED load it frequently eliminates these problems
 
pic-1.jpg
 
PCS is now supplying the ILR-10K with leads for this application. The load resistor will dissipate only 1.4W at 100% brightness settings and less at any lower settings. This heat generation is low enough that the load resistor can be installed behind the dimmer switch or at the load/fixture location.  
 
The load resistor has a high resistance (10K ohm) and is designed to be directly wired across 120VAC.  Please see diagram below.
 
pic-2.jpg
 
* Please note the load resistor is installed in PARALLEL with the LED. This means the load resistor is wired between the switch load wire (RED) and neutral (WHITE). If the load resistor is incorrectly installed in SERIES with the load, the LED will stay off. This will not hurt the load resistor or the switch or the LED, but the LED will never go on.  

**Also please note that a PCS filter inductor (ILC) must be installed in series with the load. If the Filter Inductor is incorrectly installed in parallel it would overheat and burn out immediately and probably damage the switch since it has such a low resistance (.5 ohm) it would appear to be a short circuit.
 
ILC.jpg
 
Found an interesting thread on the MiCasa forum...
 
I just finished testing the leviton 1000 watt dimmers with Philips 7 watt 280 lumen LED lights and here is the results:

1. by adding one 10 watt 3.3K resistor to the circuit (tied between output of dimmer and neutral wire) the flickering disappears but dimming rate is still unstable.
2. by adding two 10 watt 3.3K resistors to the circuit (in parallel) the flickeing is gone and the dim rate is stabilized
3. with the two resistors I changed the number of LED lights from 10 down to no lights at all and the circuit is stable....dims correctly with any number of lights
4. with the two resistors and no LED lights and the dimmer functions fine.....it means that the ZWAVE will alway function independant of a no load situation! Never a dead node to disrupt the ZWAVE mapping which really slows down the network.

I will look at it on the scope next but I would say SUCESS! I am looking at a safe way to implement the resistors next....
 
What's that last comment all about?  The initial email sounds like you just need to install a resistor, then it says at the end you have to install a second part (inductor) that's not shown in the diagram...
 
Last comment just relates to using a resistor and doesn't mention a choke filter.
 
Looks like the in line choke would fit inside a switch box just fine.
 
Redid drawing...
 
ILC-UPB.jpg
 
Many many years ago i wrote about my success in using a capacitor to eliminate flicker.  I would put these in the fixture of the first LED ceiling light, and the flickering would be much improved.  The advantage of a capacitor over a resistor is a capacitor actually uses "virtual power" and very little actual power, so the heat is minimal.  You MUST use an AC rated capacitor of around .47 uf.
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JFOQZDI?keywords=.47%20uf%20ac&qid=1457712132&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2
 
Unfortunately it takes some trial and error to get the right components for each situation.  For some LED bulbs this worked good, for others it didn't. Same with dimmers.
 
pete_c said:
Last comment just relates to using a resistor and doesn't mention a choke filter.
 
Looks like the in line choke would fit inside a switch box just fine.
 
Redid drawing...
 
attachicon.gif
ILC-UPB.jpg
 
The comment with the '**', looks like you edited after I posted...
 
Desert_AIP said:
I've been needing to do this with my LED window candles. They remain on, very dim when off
Or power them with an appliance module with a relay as opposed to a lamp dimmer module.
 
Not at all Cobra.  Where do you see that?
 
I added the comment and drawing relating to the choke filter.
 
Here switched to 120VAC LED lighting for some shelving over the last couple of years.
 
I am using UPB dimming modules.  The lights do dim.  I was going to modify a light module if I can fit everything inside.
 
pete_c said:
**Also please note that a PCS filter inductor (ILC) must be installed in series with the load. If the Filter Inductor is incorrectly installed in parallel it would overheat and burn out immediately and probably damage the switch since it has such a low resistance (.5 ohm) it would appear to be a short circuit.
Was just wondering about this comment.
 
Does it mean they require the resistor and choke on all installs?  Or was this in reference to a particular type of install only?
 
cobra said:
Was just wondering about this comment.
 
Does it mean they require the resistor and choke on all installs?  Or was this in reference to a particular type of install only?
This is kinda the point of my initial post. Does it work? Has anyone experimented with the resistor, the inductor, both? I think that it will be a case of trial and error being that not all LED bulbs are created equal. I have been buying CREE bulbs here and they work pretty well with the SA dimmer switches but they do not dim for the complete range of the switch. They seem to lose a little at the bottom near the off position.
 
Mike.
 
Yeah; wanna know here too Mick and Cobra.  
 
PCS makes it sound like the inductor is part of their standard.
 
There is nothing that I can find relating to values of the resistor and/or choke.
 
The second post from another forum deals with flicker/dimming and doesn't mention an inductor.
 
Purchased COB LED lamps here for glass shelving and they only dim when at right above the off part with no real range.  (like you Mike). 
 
Above also is mentioned LED candles.  Here also use candles in every window (around November/December) and have purchased a few different LED low wattage lamps and went back to incandescent ones cuz they are too bright at this time and not using a dimmer.
 
ano said:
Or power them with an appliance module with a relay as opposed to a lamp dimmer module.
They're hard wired Sillite outlets powered from the output side of a UPB relay electrical outlet.
There is a small pass through current for the switch sensing which is enough to keep the 0.5w LEDs dimly lit during the day.
It was never noticeable with the incandescent bulbs.
 
pete_c said:
 
Above also is mentioned LED candles.  Here also use candles in every window (around November/December) and have purchased a few different LED low wattage lamps and went back to incandescent ones cuz they are too bright at this time and not using a dimmer.
Pete, I passed this link on to someone here, don't remember if it was you.
These are the LED bulbs I'm using in my candles.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-5W-C7-NIGHT-LIGHT-LED-FILAMENT-BULB-2700K-CANDELABRA-BASE-/131595707644?var=&hash=item1ea3b724fc
 
Thank Desert_AIP.
 
I do not remember now as here put the candlesticks in place in November and take down the candlesticks every year in January; well and typically think about it in November.
 
The way the windows are here in a two colonial style house is that every window has one controller.and there is an outlet here by every window.  On the second floor the outlets are 1/2 switched to the UPB wall switch which I leave alone. 
 
I like the Edison style LED lamp.
 
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