UPB - Syncing touchpad indicators with UpStart

rmcneil

Member
I searched but didn't see an answer, so please point me to the right place if this has been answered.

Here's the situation I'm trying to sort out:
Load is controlled by an SAI US1-40T.
I have a couple HAI 38A00-1 6-button keypads. What I want to do is have one keypad control the load using the On and Off buttons and the other keypad control the load by toggling button A. Using a single link and activating and deactivating makes linking to the A button simple. The difficulty is in linking to the ON and OFF buttons for the other keypad. I can't seem to make it work and properly light the indicators without creating a second OFF link. Unfortunately, having a separate On and OFF link messes up the control of the indicator of the A button on the first keypad.

The PCS 6-Button keypad has the ability to set the indicators to "opposite", so it is possible to use that keypad with the single link, but I can't find a way to make that work with the HAI's. Am I missing something, or is it not possible?
 
I can't help you other then to suggest that using two different approaches to controlling things (one button versus two buttons) is likely to be confusing to end users. I would pick one approach or the other and be consistent.
 
I can't help you other then to suggest that using two different approaches to controlling things (one button versus two buttons) is likely to be confusing to end users. I would pick one approach or the other and be consistent.

Actually, the intent was to keep it logical/intuitive.
The On/Off is a keypad on the other side of the same room, so On/Off is the logical choice for the end-user.
The A toggle is on a keypad in an adjacent room where the On/Off is used for the local room, again the logical choice for the end-user and the A-toggle being an alternative choice, so logically associated with the non-local room.

I suspect the problem is that the HAI engineers intended A-D to be scenes controlling the same source as the On/Off and didn't conceive of those buttons controlling other loads.
 
rmac,

Are you using these UPB devices stand-alone or with some automation system? If you are using them with an HAI system, you can set the HAI system to use either HLC or UPB mode for specific "rooms" of lighting. HLC mode assumes certain functionality and sets up the devices accordingly. If you use UPB mode or UPStart to set up the devices you can do just about anything you want with them.

Using UPStart, I would assign a link to the "A" button on the 6-button keypad and set the functionality to "Toggle Button". I would assign the same link to the on and off buttons of the other keypad. Set the functionality of the "On" button to "On Button" and the "Off" button to "Off Button".

If you are using HLC mode with an HAI controller there are some other options. Let me know your configuration and exactly what you're trying to accomplish with both keypads and I can give you some possibilities.
 
Using UPStart, I would assign a link to the "A" button on the 6-button keypad and set the functionality to "Toggle Button". I would assign the same link to the on and off buttons of the other keypad. Set the functionality of the "On" button to "On Button" and the "Off" button to "Off Button".

By using "On Button" and "Off Button", the indicators turn on and off when pushing the corresponding buttons, however, the Off Button does not turn off the light because "Off Button" is an activator, not a de-activator and expects to trigger a separate Off Link.
 
rmac,

Instead of "Off Button" use "Link Deactivator". You could also use "Link Activator" for the on button or use "Custom" to configure the buttons any way you want.
 
rmac,

Instead of "Off Button" use "Link Deactivator". You could also use "Link Activator" for the on button or use "Custom" to configure the buttons any way you want.

Using "Link Deactivator" turns off the load, but doesn't change the status of the indicators.

This is the crux of the problem. I don't see a way to keep the On and Off indicators in sync with the load using a single On Link. If I go to separate On and Off Links then they stay in sync, but then I can't properly sync the A button on the other Keypad.
 
Actually, the intent was to keep it logical/intuitive.

I am retired now but for 35+ years I was a programmer and my specialty was UI design. I respectfully disagree with your analysis.

With regards to UPB, having distinct ON and OFF scenes yields one subtle benefit, the ability to distinguish between ON, OFF or something else. With the single button activating/deactivating the ON scene you can only display ON or something else, which might be OFF but it could also be something else.

YMMV.
 
Actually, the intent was to keep it logical/intuitive.

I am retired now but for 35+ years I was a programmer and my specialty was UI design. I respectfully disagree with your analysis.

With regards to UPB, having distinct ON and OFF scenes yields one subtle benefit, the ability to distinguish between ON, OFF or something else. With the single button activating/deactivating the ON scene you can only display ON or something else, which might be OFF but it could also be something else.

YMMV.

What is illogical about having a single button turn on and off a single non-dimming load in a different room? There is no "something else" in this application. It is illuminated if the load is on and not illuminated if the load is off. It is not the primary switch for that load, but is there merely for convenience. It provides information by being an indicator and a local switch to change the status of the load without having to go into the other room.

It would appear that HAI agrees wth you and intends for the A-D buttons to be used for "scenes" only. PCS allows more flexibility by allowing each indicator to be used in "opposite" mode, allowing the on and off to use a single link and still keep the indicators in sync.
 
I use both ON and OFF links with two buttons, one to activate the ON, the other to activate the OFF. The indicators track the ON and OFF links. So what happens if I manually set the dimmer to 50%? Here both of the indicators go off so I know that the light(s) are somewhere between ON and OFF. If I used just one button to toggle the ON link I can only tell that the lights are ON or something else.

YMMV.
 
I use both ON and OFF links with two buttons, one to activate the ON, the other to activate the OFF. The indicators track the ON and OFF links. So what happens if I manually set the dimmer to 50%? Here both of the indicators go off so I know that the light(s) are somewhere between ON and OFF. If I used just one button to toggle the ON link I can only tell that the lights are ON or something else.

YMMV.

Fred, Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm glad you chimed in to try to help, but I don't want to be scolded for not using a product in the way someone else thinks I should use it. I can call any software or hardware customer service department to be told what a moron I am for having the imagination to use something in a different way than their imagineers intended the product to be used. The unfortunate result of my responding to your post was to take my own thread OT and possibly dissuade people from trying to help answer my question.

Back on topic - This is a programmable/configurable product. The reason it is programmable/configurable is because they intended for some flexibility in meeting end-users wants/needs. All I really want to know is if I can get this product to do what I was trying to do. Either it will and I just haven't figured out the magic combination of settings, or the product just can't be configured to do what I want.

So - Will it or won't it. I gather from Brian's responses that he doesn't think it will. Anybody else try and succeed? Anyone else try and fail? Is the only way to get that particular keypad to do what I want to finally get my Elk out of the box and start setting it up?
 
Wasn't trying to scold you, just trying to give you the benefit of years of experience and all the mistakes I made and learning I did along the way.

You could do what you want if you had a some sort of home automation system, like an ELK M1, HAI Omnipro, etc. Imagine you had setup 3 UPB links ON, OFF and TOGGLE. The ON push button would activate and respond to the ON link. The other buttons would work the same for the corresponding links.

When the ON button was pressed the home automation system would see the ON link activated it could turn on the dimmer (directly or via a link) AND activate the TOGGLE link, thus controlling the TOGGLE button LED. The OFF button would be treated similarly. When the TOGGLE button was pressed the TOGGLE link would be activated or deactivated. The home automation system would see that and turn on/turn off the dimmer and activate the ON or OFF link as appropriate, thus controlling the ON/OFF button LEDs.

For now could you just go with ON/OFF buttons or have you run out of spare buttons?
 
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