Use Interior Contacts in Arm Away Mode?

[video321]

I have all entry points covered with contacts as well as glass break detectors covering all windows. What I don't have at this time is any secondary interior detection. Motion detectors were hard for me to implement because of the house layout and cats. I was/am also looking at using pulsors at some point, but for now I was wondering what the possibliity is to use contacts on strategic closet doors, dressers, etc.

Ideally, I'd like to have the contacts only be active if they are secure when the system is armed away. I would also like to use cross-zoning to reduce any chance of a false alarm from say...a closet door not being closed all the way but enough to report secure and then one of the cats bumps and opens it. I'm pretty sure I could set these zones as interior burglar, but would rather not because I don't want to see them listed as not ready when going to arm the system. Also, I use a keyfob that checks to verify all zones are secure (except the garage door) before arming the house in away mode.

Any thoughts? Anyone do anything remotely like this? I know a lot of you guys have contacts on closet doors for automation, but what about using them for security too?

 

[wuench]

I do it, not with cross zoning, though. If you define them as burglar interior they wont arm in stay mode, force arm will only arm them if secure. I have one that I arm in all modes, that is a great source of false alarms. As a matter of fact, I was just thinking this weekend of putting a M1KPAS there to remind me and allow me to disarm it.... I also use them to trigger lights for closets, etc.

I do get some sinister satisfaction in imagining a burglar somehow doing all the work and getting past the perimeter only to open one of the interior doors and trigger the alarm...

 

[video321]

force arm will only arm them if secure

True....I didn't think about that. So does that mean you don't mark them as bypassable?

I don't have a problem with the whole force arming/having to enter your code issue because since I use a generic keyfob tied to a zone input it doesn't require me to enter a code no matter what. The only issue would be when leaving the house seeing the keypad showing zones are not ready and ignoring them thinking it's just some interior zones (or do interior zones not show up as not ready on the keypad?), but it may be a back window. Not a huge deal because the system won't let me arm away if I leave it open but that means a trip back into the house, possibly with my young kids.

 

[Photon]

. . . Not a huge deal because the system won't let me arm away if I leave it open but that means a trip back into the house, possibly with my young kids.

What feedback did you set up to let you know if the system won't arm in case a zone reports not ready? I also arm my system by keyfob, and I have a couple lights in a garage window that tell me the status. However, it will arm with some zones not ready, and I have to check the keypad on my way out the door to be sure all zones are ready.

 

[video321]

Photon-

I use a strobe setup to flash equal to the exit timer. As for not arming with violated zones, I did the following (off the top of my head):

whenever task arm away is activated
and area 1 is ready to arm
then arm away

whenever task arm away is activated
and area 1 is not ready to arm
then bypass garage door
then turn on output xx for 1 second

whenever output xx turns off
and area 1 is ready to arm
then activate garage door opener
then unbypass garage door
then arm away

whenever output xx turns off
and area 1 is not ready to arm
then chirp the outside siren 1 time

The system will only let bypassed zones pass as ready to arm with those rules. So, a chirp and no status from the strobe is my signal. The rules for using my keyfob are actually pretty long. For instance I also have one that will not disarm the house and open the garage door if the burglar alarm went off (perhaps we didn't get the message to know). The system will flash the stobe and chirp the outside siren, but after a few seconds you can hit the button again and it will disarm and open the garage door - the first press is denied for obvious safety reasons. Hope that helps, if not I can work with you with what I have as I've tested it pretty well.

 

[apostolakisl]

Have you considered putting your interior stuff on a different area. Then use a rule to arm that area whenever the first area is armed in away mode. You can also make the interior stuff force armable so they will arm only if closed. And if a burglar does somehow get in and then secure one of your open, but force armable interior doors, and then open it back up, it will alarm. Very unlikely situation I might say, but what the heck.

 

[video321]

Have you considered putting your interior stuff on a different area. Then use a rule to arm that area whenever the first area is armed in away mode.

No, I did not!
I knew you guys would come up with some good stuff!!!

 

[Photon]

Photon-
The system will only let bypassed zones pass as ready to arm with those rules. So, a chirp and no status from the strobe is my signal. The rules for using my keyfob are actually pretty long. For instance I also have one that will not disarm the house and open the garage door if the burglar alarm went off (perhaps we didn't get the message to know). The system will flash the stobe and chirp the outside siren, but after a few seconds you can hit the button again and it will disarm and open the garage door - the first press is denied for obvious safety reasons. Hope that helps, if not I can work with you with what I have as I've tested it pretty well.

Nicely done. I may have to get back into my rules and add your scheme.

I intended to have the M1 operate the garage doors, but I had safety concerns after a local GDO accident made the news. I do have feedback that the alarm has activated, should that happen, so we don't casually enter the house. When I use the fob to disarm the system, the "disarmed" indicator light goes on for five seconds. However, if the alarm flag is set, the "armed" light also goes on for 60 seconds.

 

[video321]

Got it. That works (and not to take anything away from your setup), but I know my wife wouldn't even look at the lights! There are times she won't even arm the house because she "forgot" since she would hit the garage door button on her way out instead of using the fob to do it for her (we don't park in the garage). I would keep telling her to get into the habit of using the fob so you know you armed the house. If you want I could send you a PM of the disarm task I use - just let me know. Also, I'm curious...what type of GDO incident was this?

 

[apostolakisl]

For instance I also have one that will not disarm the house and open the garage door if the burglar alarm went off (perhaps we didn't get the message to know). The system will flash the stobe and chirp the outside siren, but after a few seconds you can hit the button again and it will disarm and open the garage door - the first press is denied for obvious safety reasons. Hope that helps, if not I can work with you with what I have as I've tested it pretty well.

I like this. I will add it to my system.

 

[Photon]

. . . Also, I'm curious...what type of GDO incident was this?

A homeowner had pressed the button to close the door and then ran to beat the door. She tripped the IR beam at the bottom, the door reversed, a spring broke, and the door came crashing down. She nearly lost her foot. Just a few days later I hit the button to close the door and a toddler from a neighbor's house came around the corner and entered the garage as the door decended. The door reversed with a heck of a shudder. Nothing bad happened. Having the previous incident still in my mind, I've been reluctant to add any automation. During our 20 years at that house we had door springs break on two occasions, although the door was opening both times.

I see Sears now sells a model that can be controlled over the Internet. Surely their lawyers evaluated that product for liability exposure. I should get over my concern and connect the cable I ran to the GDO before I chickened out.

 

[apostolakisl]

A homeowner had pressed the button to close the door and then ran to beat the door. She tripped the IR beam at the bottom, the door reversed, a spring broke, and the door came crashing down. She nearly lost her foot. Just a few days later I hit the button to close the door and a toddler from a neighbor's house came around the corner and entered the garage as the door decended. The door reversed with a heck of a shudder. Nothing bad happened. Having the previous incident still in my mind, I've been reluctant to add any automation. During our 20 years at that house we had door springs break on two occasions, although the door was opening both times.

I see Sears now sells a model that can be controlled over the Internet. Surely their lawyers evaluated that product for liability exposure. I should get over my concern and connect the cable I ran to the GDO before I chickened out.

Did both springs break? I have had a number of springs break on my garage doors over the years (I would guess 4 or 5), but there is always two of them, so with just one broken the doors never came down, they just would get quite heavy. Never have they broken away from the automatic opener's grasp. This is the case both with the cheapo kind that stretch out and with the nicer torsion ones.

But still, these things can happen just as easily with your HA controlling the door as with you pushing the button. As you mentioned, the one lady tried to run under it. I don't know what started the door moving, but people do that all the time manually pushing the button.

 

[video321]

I had a spring break which prevented the door from moving at all - it broke while the door was either down or on its way down and jammed it up pretty good! Also, I've always had a button on the interior right by the track of the overhead door and a keypad on the exterior as well so I never had to deal with that "get ready...run" nonsense! I wouldn't let an incident like that stop you and for the kid....well, thankfully the preventive system worked. But what if the kid ran behind your car, god forbid, instead of into the garage. Not everything is controllable, no matter how hard you try.

 

[Photon]

Did both springs break? I have had a number of springs break on my garage doors over the years (I would guess 4 or 5), but there is always two of them, so with just one broken the doors never came down, they just would get quite heavy. Never have they broken away from the automatic opener's grasp. This is the case both with the cheapo kind that stretch out and with the nicer torsion ones.

But still, these things can happen just as easily with your HA controlling the door as with you pushing the button. As you mentioned, the one lady tried to run under it. I don't know what started the door moving, but people do that all the time manually pushing the button.

I don't know the specifics on the lady in the news that was hurt running under the door. I had a pair of torsion springs on my solid wood door. When one spring broke, the other wasn't able to hold the door. The ancient GDO had a clutch that slipped as the door crashed down. I had a less than fun time opening the door using a floor jack and 2x4s so I could get to the airport the first time.

 

[apostolakisl]

I don't know the specifics on the lady in the news that was hurt running under the door. I had a pair of torsion springs on my solid wood door. When one spring broke, the other wasn't able to hold the door. The ancient GDO had a clutch that slipped as the door crashed down. I had a less than fun time opening the door using a floor jack and 2x4s so I could get to the airport the first time.

I think a lot of it comes down to how heavy the door is. Most of the doors I had springs break on where southern doors that weren't solid insulated heavy doors.

But I still don't see how HA control of the door adds to the risk of getting hurt with a spring breaking. In fact, if you are controlling the door with HA, then probably no one is actually near the door and that would be lower risk. People manually run the garage doors all the time and walk under it while it is moving. It is probably just a bad idea to ever put yourself in the path of a moving garage door regardless of how it got to moving.

I do understand that using HA to control the door is more risky at causing damage. If, say, your kid leaves the bike sitting there and it just happens to not block the reversing beam. Or someone leaves the cargo door on the back of the tahoe open and the car isn't pulled in far enough.