using 18/8 tstat wire to move elk panel

[jcrack_corn]

i need to move an elk m1 panel about 30 feet for a remodel.

all zone inputs are common to the negative battery terminal.....

so was considering using 18/8 tstat wire to move 7 zones at a time to simplify wiring. (7 zone +, one common neg that is split back out at the panel.

the guys at elk werent too happy about it, but i dont see any actual technical reason why it would be any problem at all (and in fact reduces the number of splices/ points of failure).

am i missing something?

btw. 48 zones, eaiser to pull 7 wires vs 48 or some fancy expensive multiple pair structured wire

 

[gatchel]

Did they give you a reason for not being happy with it?

 

[jcrack_corn]

Did they give you a reason for not being happy with it?

not an electrical engineering reasonable one. just that they would not do it that way, they would run individiual pairs.

from an EE standpoint there are no voltage, amperage, or crosstalk issues that i can figure out...just wanted a second opinion.

if one of my negs fails then that causes trouble on 7 zones vs one....but again...not a big issue as this is my actual system so that also simplifies troubleshooting in my case.

any ideas?

 

[Del91574]

Playing devil's advocate, but because of the remodel, how do you intend on leaving the junction point accessible for service purposes?
 
Personally, if possible, I'd consider leaving expanders at the original location and then just deal with data and what couldn't be put on an expander (2W fire, etc.)
 
That said, if  you must move, 18 AWG is overkill and going to be a lot more difficult to work with.
 
Barring the data bus, I don't see a foul to using a common negative, assuming the EOLR's are installed and placed on the proper leg of the circuit. That said, I'd suggest buying something like a 10/22 or similar and pull that over individual pairs or heavier cabling when it's not needed. (again, discounting data bus, speakers, transformer, etc. that should be 18 AWG).

 

[gatchel]

Would I do it, probably not. But I also have 1000's of feet of cable available to use.
I don't see any real reason why you couldn't do it, though. 18 AWG can handle the current of 7 shorted zones with no problem at all. As long as the circuit traces on the zone grounds are up to it then there should be no issue. I also wouldn't use solid cable but that is also a personal choice.
 
Wait a little while for others to chime in. There is a lot of good knowledge and experience here...
 
 
The good thing is it's your panel and the only person that has to deal with it is you. Make it neat.

 

[jcrack_corn]

the current location has a large service area in attic where everything will be easily accessible. house and attic are quite large, plenty of room to stand up and walk around (at least 20 ft height in attic due to roofline aesthetics). anyway, its all being moved to the new structured wiring closet/home theater equipment room.

18/8 tstat wire is super easy to work with, no issue there...an i am experienced in wiring houses for line and low voltage. it will be a welcome relief from working with 12/2

all negatives are common per elk, so traces are irrelevnant, any fault with my setup would occur in any setup...the bigger issue would be 7 zones in dead short, which should still be less than 500ma draw (roughly assuming a zone can pull 50-65ma which is a guess based on output zones and probably far less in reality, like 15ma....) on the shared negative 18ga

point of closet is to not leave any expanders in other areas...all cebtralized

Playing devil's advocate, but because of the remodel, how do you intend on leaving the junction point accessible for service purposes?
 
Personally, if possible, I'd consider leaving expanders at the original location and then just deal with data and what couldn't be put on an expander (2W fire, etc.)
 
That said, if  you must move, 18 AWG is overkill and going to be a lot more difficult to work with.
 
Barring the data bus, I don't see a foul to using a common negative, assuming the EOLR's are installed and placed on the proper leg of the circuit. That said, I'd suggest buying something like a 10/22 or similar and pull that over individual pairs or heavier cabling when it's not needed. (again, discounting data bus, speakers, transformer, etc. that should be 18 AWG).

 

[gatchel]

Sounds good. Have at it and take some pics for us....
 
You are correct on the low current per zone. I think a dead short is 7mA per zone....

 

[tmbrown97]

Technically speaking, you're totally right - it's fine and would have no issues that I can think of as proposed... but it would be better and cleaner if you just extended zone for zone, and that's what I'd do personally.

 

[jcrack_corn]

ill split the difference. im going to use 22/4 using dedicated negs (2 zones per wire). ill pre cut the 24 runs and route them together all at once.

that way everybody is happy.

ill probably use telco splices rather than butt....i like them better with the smaller gauge