Replacing 8 110VAC smoke detectors with 8 FSA-210s on DSC 1832....

[ano]

4. Not sure if you mean the "auto verified fire" feature.  For me, I wouldn't use the auto verify, as I view it as slowing down the notification of the fire department until the condition is verified (unless a second zone trips).  I wouldn't want to delay the response, even if just one zone trips.  It might seem like a nice way to filter out false alarms, but if you properly install the smokes, there should be few false alarms.

Smoke alarm verification is sometimes a requirement, depending on your location, or the type of premises. Some monitoring companies even require it. In any case its not supposed to add more than 90 seconds, but of course, every second can count.  If your area doesn't require it, then certainly you don't need to activate it, but the option is there for when its required.

 

[sorka]

It would be nice if the the verification feature could be disabled for say "away mode" but active for "stay mode".

 

[Del91574]

Smoke alarm verification is sometimes a requirement, depending on your location, or the type of premises. Some monitoring companies even require it. In any case its not supposed to add more than 90 seconds, but of course, every second can count.  If your area doesn't require it, then certainly you don't need to activate it, but the option is there for when its required.

Verification is not a requirement, actually quite the opposite. There's a finite amount of time that would be allowed, with express consent from the AHJ. It also won't work with 4 wire detectors. The majority will not allow verification on a system, and rarely on a commercial fire alarm system.
 
How it works is not as described....what it does is power down and reset the detector loop. Once it's reset, it monitors the system for a second activation of any detector within 90 seconds to generate an alarm. It will not delay the signal for 90 seconds, what it does is delay the amount of time it takes for the loop to reset and stabilize, generally 10-15 seconds.

 

[ano]

A very good discussion of the situation can be found here. http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/publications/nfpa-journal/2016/may-june-2016/features/unwanted-alarms

The real amazing part for me is that usually less than 1% of fire alarms are actually fires that need responding to. Some numbers have this value as low as 0.3% meaning 99.7% of fire alarms are false alarms.

 

[sorka]

About half way through NFPA 72. There are a ton of requirements that anyone who isn't familiar with code will easily miss. Definitely not a casual DIY project. 
 
It's going to cost me several hundred $$ more than I previously, naively, thought do single zones with 4-wire smokes using the proper fire rated wire. 
 
Also, I think I'll leave the original 120 vac system in place in addition to doing multiple zone 4-wire detectors. I think also replace the 18 year old smokes as well. 

 

[sorka]

Does anyone know why an FSA-410/210 smoke & heat without sounder draws 25 mA while in alarm but an FSB-210 smoke & heat only draws 1.8 mA in the alarm state?

 

[mikefamig]

I'm a DIY'er who installed an Elk security/automation system myself but I balked when it came to fire detectors. I ended up installing ELK wireless smoke detectors. They are UL listed plug and play detectors and very easy to install because all of the logic is in the panel and taken care of for you.
 
Mike.

 

[sorka]

I ended up ordering the FSB-210BT addressable smokes with a 5100 and 5204. I give up having a sounder on the smokes but I still have location. The installation is considerably simpler. I'm leaving the linked 120vac system in place.
 
If I run them as a chain and a break occurs, I'll know where because units on the panel side of the break will all still be communicating while the units on the other side of the break won't. If a short occurs I'll know it happened but but not where. The digital communication between the units on the two wire bus vastly simplifies the installation with a lot less wire and no supervising relays or power relays. 

 

[RAL]

Does anyone know why an FSA-410/210 smoke & heat without sounder draws 25 mA while in alarm but an FSB-210 smoke & heat only draws 1.8 mA in the alarm state?

 
The FSA210 smoke detectors signal an alarm condition by closing a contact to short the wiring loop.  That draws a fairly high amount of current.
 
The FSB addressable smokes don't work that way.  Instead of closing a contact on the 2-wire loop/bus, it sends a message to the 5100.  That takes very little current.

 

[sorka]

The FSA210 smoke detectors signal an alarm condition by closing a contact to short the wiring loop.  That draws a fairly high amount of current.
 
The FSB addressable smokes don't work that way.  Instead of closing a contact on the 2-wire loop/bus, it sends a message to the 5100.  That takes very little current.

 
Got it, so the FSAs when not in alarm state are probably drawing the same amount of current as the FSBs?

 

[RAL]

Got it, so the FSAs when not in alarm state are probably drawing the same amount of current as the FSBs?

 
The FSB210 draws about the same current whether it is in alarm state or not (1.6 to 1.8mA) because it constantly sends supervision messages back to the panel to verify the integrity of the wiring.
 
With the FSA210, the panel is able to monitor the integrity of the wiring by looking for a change in the voltage, and the smoke detector draws very little current (just 20 microamps) in the non-alarm state.