Using GE Wireless Repeater (NX-707) with HAI 42A00?

[js19707]

Title says it all, I have an HAI Omnipro II system with 42A00-2 wireless receiver and a number of GE wireless sensors.  One or two zones (furthest from the receiver) occasionally report trouble or not ready, hence the repeater.
 
Unfortunately, the documentation that accompanied the repeater is a bit unclear and it's hard to find much online.  So i have a few questions I'm hoping to get answered here at CT:
 

• To configure the repeater, do I need to learn it into the 42A00 receiver?  Is it just another zone from the perspective of the receiver and the HAI panel?
• Is there a definitive way to tell whether the repeater is working correctly?  Given the problem zones only occasionally display symptoms (sigh RF), I'd like to be able to tell things are working correctly.  But AFAIK there is no signal strength indicator available for GE Wireless zones on the HAI.
• Any gotchas or anything to consider when setting it up?

thanks!
--js

 

[ano]

What type of repeater do you have? There are actually a few companies that make GE repeaters.
 
You need to install the repeater about halfway between the problem sensors and the receiver. The great thing about the receiver is you don't need to do anything to get it to work. No learning. It is not a zone, all it does is pass along the sensor info and rebroadcast it. It will repeat you next door neighbor's sensors also if they use GE.
 
How can you tell its working? It should have a light on the front when it repeats a signal. Trip a sensor, and the light on the repeater should flash. Its as simple as that. Make sure the repeater has a batter backup as well, but it doesn't need to be wired to the panel or sensors in any way.

 

[StarTrekDoors]

I would use the intelligent repeater function rather than rebroadcast everything as this has the unintended effect of saturating and covering signals from other devices. After you enroll the sensor transmitter, test the entire setup.
 
To test; disconnect repeater, move the sensor transmitter farther away until you are sure you have no signal at the main receiver, reconnect the repeater, and test.  If working, the repeater will extend the signal so that the transmitter would start being received.  If not working, then you will have no signal. Of course the repeater will need to be within range of both the original transmitter and the main receiver for this test to work but it is simple to do and you will know 100% if it is working.
 
Gotchas - iron pipes, metal wall studs, radio stations, other EMF, etc.  can disrupt any wireless transmission, so place your repeater in the best possible location between the main receiver and any transmitters.  We worked an install for a business that was located next door to Radio Shack and it was a nightmare for them because of all the wireless interference plus a local radio station was nearby and the metal wall studs caused all kinds of issues with signal reception. Hardwired is always best given it is not susceptible to inadvertent jamming or signal loss, but in many cases, wireless using repeater(s) can be made to work if you survey the coverage area and consider anything else that can broadcast signals - including the sun.  Think of the repeater as both a receiver and a transmitter (2-in-1) and line of site without sources of interference will work best.
 
Alternatively, a more cost effective option for your installation may be to use long range transmitters that integrate with a receiver base relay module (TR) that can be connected to hardwired zones. Because they can support long distance signaling, long range transmitter/relay (TR) bundles do not require a repeater. Many TR bundles are much much less in cost than a wireless sensor + repeater combo and generally TRs have longer range.  Long range transmitters may be more reliable as well because you aren't dependent on two transmissions and two received signals (sensor transmitter to repeater receiver then repeater transmitter to main receiver.  The downside to a TR is there may be no supervision signal, so may not be well suited if supervision is critical and you purchase an unsupervised model.  A repeater is typically used for many devices but since you only have one or two zones, you may be better served using a long range transmitter/relay setup instead.

 

[js19707]

What type of repeater do you have? There are actually a few companies that make GE repeaters.

 
Sorry for not stating this, it's the ITI 80-922-1 (NX-707).  It supports both 'dumb' (repeat everything) and 'smart' (repeat only enrolled devices) modes.  The documentation states that the 'smart' mode is preferred.
 
Moving the sensor all the way until it's out of range, and then testing with the repeater added is a good idea.
 
IIUC what you're both saying, it sounds like there is no need to make the 42a00 receiver aware of the repeater, and no enrolling of the repeater required.  That was my primary question.
 
I guess the repeater just sends out the repeated signal as though it was the wireless sensor?  And I presume the 42a00 receiver is OK if it occasionally gets duplicate signals from the sensor (one from the sensor itself and one from the repeater)?
 
StarTrekDoors: your idea of considering long-range transmitters with a receiver and wired zone would be a good idea, but I already have the GE wireless sensors.  I thought I would be OK with the 42a00 and it mostly works, the flakiness appeared later.
 
Regarding battery backup, the NX-707 doesn't have one built in.  Any recommendations for a compact battery backup / UPS?  I'm planning to tuck the NX-707 repeater into a cupboard out of sight so compactness of the battery backup is important for WAF.

 

[ano]

I have used that repeater, but ended up switching to one made by Resolution Products, RE120.  http://resolutionproducts.com/Websites/resolutionproducts/images/RE120_GE_Repeater_Translator.pdf  That repeater actually contains three AAA batteries, which act as backup.  Its about $70
 
The sensor transmitter messages are very short, so even with a repeater, its not very likely that you will miss any transmissions, and in any case, they are transmitted multiple times anyway. I have 30 sensors and never had any problem. I'm not sure why you want to enroll any sensors, unless you lived somewhere really close to someone else with lots of sensors, like a high-rise apartment where every tenant had them.  otherwise, I'm not sure how your network would be overloaded. The GE sensors ONLY transmit, they have no way to receive signals. I believe each sensor transmits its message multiple times, and the repeater just retransmits the end of the sequence. Every sensor transmits about every 50 minutes just to say it is O.K.

 

[js19707]

Thanks for the explanation ano.  I don't have any reason to prefer the 'smart' mode, other than the documentation telling me it's preferred.  I probably have ~70 wireless sensors, and as I said only 1-2 of them (most distant from the receiver) appear to be in any way flaky.  I presume if there were any network overloading, other zones would be affected.  Perhaps I'll just go with 'dumb' mode. 
 

I have used that repeater, but ended up switching to one made by Resolution Products, RE120. 

 
 Out of curiosity, why did you end up switching away from the NX-707 to the RE120?

 

[ano]

i was starting to have missed sensors even with the NX-707, and the RE120 fixed that.  (I don't think the RE120 even supports any "smart" mode.) The RE120 seems to have slightly better sensativity, maybe because the design is many years newer. And I like the built in battery backup. Seems like a better design.