WAF aceptable automated lighting

[pete_c]

Great idea on using the occupancy sensors guys. Mine are currently hard wired.

I've had no issues with the second floor but have been going very slow the main floor in the house.

Dan, I still have the older X10 RF PIR sensors which I don't utilize today but would work just fine in same/similiar scenario.

 

[tenholde]

Use HomeSeer, UPB, and ELK:

-Turn off desk light when computer screensaver comes on. Turn on desk light when screensaver turns off.

-Most rooms have a button that turns off ALL of the lights in that room. Just hit it when you leave the room.

-Flash all lights when home alarm sounds. Return all lights back to their previous state when alarm is reset.

-I have a program that floats on the desktop alerting me when designated lights, etc are in various states. It is amazing how many times I click it to turn off lights that were left on (laundry, garage ceiling, etc)

-Voice alert when cedar closet doors or garage doors are open more than xxx minutes

-Voice alert on active weather warnings

-When bathroom lights are turned on, automatically turns exhaust fans on

-Turns off all bathroom exhaust fans and ceiling heat if they have been on more than xxx minutes

-When alarm Armed/Away (leaving house): turn most lights off. If evening, set house to night-away lighting mode, turn all TVs off, pause and mute all sonos music players.

-When alarm countdown begins via a violated zone (meant for when door is opened and house is in armed-stay mode and forgot to disarm once again) chirp siren 3 times. The panel in the kitchen also brings up an alarm keypad automatically so you can enter code to disarm.

-When phone rings: display number and caller (from CID or my phonebook) on kitchen display panel, pause DirecTv receivers and mute TVs, pause and mute sonos music players

-Automation panel in kitchen displays slideshow (grandchildren) after nn seconds of no activity. If the ELK motion detector does not detect motion in the kitchen for xx minutes, power down the panel display. Once kitchen motion, power ON the panel display.

tenholde

 

[tshephard]

Great idea on using the occupancy sensors guys. Mine are currently hard wired.

Pete - What occupancy sensors are you using?

I have a goodnight button next to the bed that puts the house in night mode. Motion in the master bedroom causes the light to come on around 20%. I use an old desktop x10 mini controller for this. I used to have the goodnight button setback the thermostat, but I often go to bed before my wife so I have changed that to setback based on time. I have also programmed a second button the keypad to set the thermostat back right when I push it if I need to.

The all lights button the mini controller will turn on all the outside lights around the house. So if I hear something outside I can turn all the lights on from there. They go off by themselves after 5 minutes or when I press the off button.

 

[kwilcox]

I use Ademco 997 wired in, ceiling mount motion sensors. Very sensitive but the relay can make a faint chirp when it closes. I connect mine to a modded hawkeye sensor for input via a w800rf32. This allows my HA system to capture the maximum number of motion events for fast response.

 

[tshephard]

I use Ademco 997 wired in, ceiling mount motion sensors.

I wonder what the difference is between your motion sensor and what they call occupancy sensor?

I read your Fortress. Very nice work! I gather you are happy with these sensors besides the clicking. My current PIRs have a faint click, I don't even notice it anymore. I have 32 digital inputs on my Stargate, so I would hard wire them if I got any. I just pulled the trigger on $600 worth of UPB switches, sort of in the dog house now ;-)

 

[kwilcox]

Thanks!

I believe that an occupancy sensor makes its own decisions about whether the coverage area is occupied or not. It's output is is therefore "occupied" or "not occupied". They have their own timeout settings etc. and often have multiple sensors. The ademco sensor output is "motion detected" so it has no intelligence. I'm using the Ademco sensor because I found that the Leviton occupancy sensor that I played with didn't set the "occupied" state right away and there was also a pretty long delay before the unoccupied state occurred after the room became empty as well.

Everybody has pretty much forgotten that the sensors make any noise at my house too.

 

[pete_c]

I purchased old new stock Rokonet sensors.

They were labeled as occupancy / PIR sensors when I purchased them. I got a good deal on them (bought a case of them).

Just looked and they are still being sold. PIR box saids they are made in Israel.

http://www.homesecur...n-detector.aspx

 

[Desert_AIP]

I use the Sensor Switch CM-9 occupancy sensors.

 

[tshephard]

Are you guess using them for alarms too or strictly lighting? How sensitive are they to movement? For example if you're sitting at a PC for a while not moving too much, will it detect you?

Are you compensating for pets at all? I'm thinking of a standard PIR with pet immunity to turn the light on, then the ceiling mounted detector to keep the light from going out.

 

[Desert_AIP]

The Occupancy sensors are only used for automation.
They're too sensitive for security use.
I would never use occupancy sensors for security.
I do use the secuirty motion sensors for some automation tasks, but they are less sesitive.

Typically, motion sensors for security need several "hits" (pulse count) before they trip.
Occupancy sensors are just the opposite, they default to tripped at the slightest.
I can walk slowly enough not to trip the motion sensors, this is very difficult with the occupancy sensors.

I don't think the occupancy sensors have any pet immunity. My cats turn on the laundry room light. So I use a timer and the security state to ignore the sensor so the lights don;t go on late at night or when armed away. I plan on adding an IR barrier sensor on some of the doorways and only usinf the occupancy sensors to turn the lights off. That should eliminate the false trips from the cats.

My cats can trip the pet "immune" PIRs too if they jump on something. The pet immune PIRs are better with dogs.

Using a pet immune PIR to turn the lights on, you will notice a delay.

Sitting at a PC is one area where there may be problems.
The Sensor Switch CM-9-PDT has acoustic sensors in addition to the PIR motion detector.
The microphonic circuit helps keep it in the tripped state when there is no detectable motion..

 

[kurtmccaslin]

My wife likes the way I use plug-in lamp adaptors. We generally use lamps for lighting in bedrooms and in living areas because they make it feel warmer and more comfortable than ceiling fixtures. Without automation, I am not likely to turn a lamp on when I enter a room-- or turn it off when I exit. However, when I program the lamps to come on when I press a wall switch, we use the lamps all the time.

It is also nice to have a switch by the bed that will turn every lamp in the house off.

Trying to conserve energy through automation has had a low WAF in my house, but still working on it. :blush:

 

[tmbrown97]

I do some basic automation with lighting, and have pretty decent WAF. About the only time she yells at me is when the bathroom lights turn off automatically... master bath will turn off if left on 2 hours, so once in a while she'll leave them on and 2 hours later while bathing the kids, they turn off (happened like twice now). She wasn't mad about the timer - she was mad because she thought I turned them off.

Overall - here's what we have:

• Lights in peripheral rooms will turn off after a set amount of time... about 30-120 minutes depending on the type of room. Laundry Room fan turns off after 30 minutes; bathroom lights off after an hour; water closet after 20 minutes, etc
• Lights in guest bathroom are completely automated; fan will time out after 20 minutes. This is based on a motion sensor, and was done for my potty-trained daughter who wasn't tall enough to reach the switch - got tired of having to turn the lights on/off for her. After 4 minutes of no movement, they turn off. Current cheapo X10RF motion sensor doesn't pick up my little sister when she's in the shower, so she often finishes her shower in the dark - but she's 15 - she'll get over it! I do have a keypad on the other side of the bathroom wall; one of these days I'm going to wire a better quality ceiling occupancy sensor into the input on that keypad and make this more reliable.
• Whole house turns off when we leave and arm countdown expires
• Outside and holiday lights totally automated
• if we get home really late and the exterior lights have turned off, pressing the doorbell turns them back on; same with opening the door really late (house guest leaving late).
• Opening any garage doors turns on the interior light; x10 motion sensors keep the lights on until motion stops for 15 minutes.
• We have scenes for "upstairs off" and "downstairs off" that we use respectively... and that alone was the single biggest reason I automated my lights - to end the circle of light-switches we had to hit to turn off everything on the way up.
• Fireplace is automated through UPB - limits how long it gets left on; turns it off if we turn off downstairs lights or leave the house (writeup in my sig).
• Back yard landscape lights turn off automatically at a set time; turn on via double-tap of the rear patio lights
• Most rooms with multiple UPB devices - a double-off tap on any switch turns off everything in the room
• Master bedroom has an "exit" button that turns off every load in the room (8 or 9 loads) - this covers me always forgetting to turn off my closet light.
• Upstairs linen closet fully automatic based on the door; times out after 10 minutes if door left open. I'm going to add this to the pantry soon too.
• Upon entering an armed house, it lights a path from the door I opened into the main living space of the house.
• a "get kids ready for bed" button lights up the stairs, foyer in front of the kids rooms, their bathroom, and their rooms... this way we send the little ones up to get ready for bathtime while we're rounding up sippy cups with milk, pacifiers, cell phones, topping off water glasses, etc.

All in all this helps us quite a bit with energy conservation... we hit the downstairs off button any time we head up; and leaving in the morning takes care of turning off the table lamps in the kids rooms, etc... bathroom/closet lights never really get left on. I don't try to automate the main living spaces much other than turn the lights on when I know I need them on; we turn them off ourselves either leaving the house or going upstairs.

I do have the W800RF32 via Elve to tie in a couple of the X10 motion sensors, and also use their slimline switch in the kids rooms stuck to the side of their dressers so that during bedtime reading, I can turn off overhead lights, turn on the table lamp, and kill the foyer light - right from the rocking chair in their room. In the MBR, I have a tabletop UPB controller and hitting the "goodnight" button hits any lights we forgot, including back yard, downstairs, etc.

 

[Desert_AIP]

A few ideas.

- At dusk the driveway carriage lights come on and the porch lights come on at 30%. When the driveway sensor is tripped the porch lights ramp up to 100% for 10 minutes, then go back to 30%.
- At 1:00 AM, the porch lights turn off, the driveway carriage lights dim to 40%.. Between 1:00 AM and dawn, if the driveway sensor trips, the porch lights ramp up to 100% as normal, but then go off after 10 minutes instead of to 30%.
- When there is a fire alarm, all the house lights turn on and the exhaust fans come on. The HVAC system turns off. The driveway carriage lights blink.
- When there is a burglar alarm, all the house lights except in the master suite turn on, the master suite lights extinguish and the exhaust fans turn off. The HVAC system turns off. The driveway carriage lights blink.
- The Master Bathroom has a morning scene. When the button is pushed, the exhaust fans turn on and the master bath lights ramp up to 60% over a period of 10 minutes. If it is colder than 60 degrees, a supplementary wall heater turns on.
- Pressing the bottom of the rocker when exiting the Master Bath turns off the Master Bath lights, both Master Closet lights and the supplementary wall heater.
- Double tapping the bottom of the rocker when exiting the Master Bedroom turns off everything above plus all the master bedroom lights (Master Suite Off).
- Single tapping the hall light turns the hall lights on, double tapping turns on the hall lights and the niche sconce. Single tapping the bottom turns off the hall lights, but leaves the niche light on. Double tapping turns off both.
- Turning on the shower light turns on the exhast fan. Turning off the shower light sets a 1 hour timer for the exhaust fan. Similiar in the water closet room.

 

[tshephard]

Great ideas. This is turning into a great thread.

I installed 10 more UPB switches today. They are HAI version 3 with built in timers. Kinda cool. I have not implemented that function yet.

These final 10 pretty much complete my lights. I have one more UPB switch to replace a x10 appliance module with on my driveway flood.

I've been experimenting with UPB links lately. I did the very thing you mentioned Desert_AIP with the master bedroom all off using a master bed off link. Double tapping the light switch off by the door turns off the vanity light, closet, bathroom light and fan. It's pretty cool seeing that work w/o any automaton software running. Double tapping off the bathroom light or fan, turns off both items. All with links.

I want to get a better handle on my UPB links. I have Whole House Leaving that turns off all the inside lights when the alarm is set, but leaves the outside lights on at night. I have the custom links like the master bed room all off, and bathroom fan links.

What UPB links are you using? What interesting functions are you controlling with just links?

 

[Desert_AIP]

I try to set up as much light automation on the UPB net, with no controller interaction, as possible.

My Master Bath setup is pretty complicated, the guest bath is similar but less involved.

As the house was built, the only light switch for the Master Bath main lights was outside on the bedroom wall as you entered the bath. With no UPB, the only way to turn on the lights was to make a loud click in the bedroom (with the standard snap switch that was there).
So I replaced that with an SA 1140. But you still have an audible click when turning them on.
So I replaced a single gang outlet box with a double gang, replaced the outlet and added an SA 240 with a top rocker and 4 buttons for use as a link transmitter.
So now whoever gets up first can go into the bathroom, close the door, and then manipulate the lights without waking the other person sleeping.

The Top rocker top single click sends a link to set the main lights to 40% (easier on the eyes first thing in the morning).
A double top click takes them to 100% (after your eyes adjust).
One of the buttons has the Morning scene i mentioned, the shaower fan comes on and the shower and main bath lights ramp up to 70% after 10 minutes. The controller watches for this link and turns on the wall heater if the outside temp is bleow 60.
The other buttons control the Makeup Vanity, Overhead Lights exclusive of the scene and the fans.
A single bottom click of the top rocker turns off everything, including both closets, fading off. A double click snaps everything off. The Omni looks for this link and turns off the heater. It always sends the heater off command because the heater may have come on by timer, by the light switch, or manually from the thermostat.

The shower light button is an 1140. Sometimes we don't need the main lights. So if you trun on the shower light the exhaust fan comes on. When you turn off the shower light the exhaust fan stays on for an hour. Sometimes I like to shower without tirning the light on, if there is enough light spilling in and my eyes aren't adjusted. if I click the light switch "off", the fan comes on without the light. it actually sends an off command but the light is already off.

The Water Closet room fan is also linked to the shower fan in this manner, so they both are on when the shower is on.
If I only use the Water Closet light, the fan in comes on with the light, but only stays on for 10 minutes after I shut the light off.
If I turn the Water Closet fan on without the light it comes on as you expect. the two switches are next to one another.
With the fan on, if I click the Water Closet light off, the fan stays on for 10 minutes. if I click the Water Closet fan off the fan goes off, along with the shower fan.

So all of that gives me automated control of the things we generally use together, and timed off functionality, but I also have manual control over the individual loads. I like the flexibility.

All of that, with the exception of the heater control, is programmed into the light switches and uses the timer functions resident in the 1140s. The only thing the controller does is watch the switches to update the load statuses and control the heater.


- At the top of the stairs I have a 240 with a scene that turns off all downstairs lights, I have a similar 240 in the downstairs hall that turns off everything upstairs.

- In the mudroom I have a 240 for use as a ink transmitter. The LED on this 240 is tied into the garage lights. If any of the lights are on in the Garage the LED is lit in the on state (I use blue for on and green for off). So I can see at a glance if I left the garage lights on.

- The LED on the 240 in the Master Bedroom that has the security light control is set to monitor the garage lights, garage doors and other doors. So When I go to bed I can verify all the doors are closed, the garage doors are all closed and all the garage lights are all off. The controller sends commands to cloe the garage and turn off the lights when arming, but the LEDs are verification if actually happened. The controller also has some lines in it to send an on command to this UPB unit when any door is open.

- At each entrance is a 240 with an 8 button panel. There are scenes here for turning on all of the exterior security lights. So I can illuminate the entire perimeter from any entry, or from the bedroom.

- I have a "Kitchen Prep" link that turns on the Kichen overhead lights to 80%, the Kitchen Sink lights to 80%, the Under Cabinet lights to 30% (which is full power for these - equivalent of 100%), and the breakfast Nook lights to 80%.

- The "Eat In Nook" link turns off the Kitchen overhead lights, dims the Sink lights to 30%, dims the Undercabinet lights to 10% (30% equivalent) and dims the nook lights to 60%. When the HiFi system is in this will trigger soft back ground music as well.

- The "Dine" link turns off the Kitchen and Nook overhead lights, dims the Sink lights to 30%, dims the Undercabinet lights to 10% (30% equivalent) and brings up the Dining Room Lights to 60%. When the HiFi system is in this will trigger soft back ground music as well.

- The "Evening" link turns off the Kitchen, Kitchen Sink, Dining Room and Nook lights and dims the undercabs to 7% (~20% equivalent), and turns on the Family Room table lamp.

- A "Party" link turns on the exterior lights at full brightness, disables the security light motion sensors, and turns on most of the lights in the down stairs public spaces at a medium level.

- I have a switch in the door jamb of our wine closet that controls the light in there.

- I use the door contacts the entrances. Opening the front door at night before 10pm will ramp up the porch lights to 100% and turn on the Foyer lights. Closing the door sets a 10 minute timer to turn off the Foyer and ramp the porch lights back down.

- Opening the back door at night will turn on the back porch lights and the door lights for the exterior shop and shed. Closing this door turns those lights off after 10 minutes.

- Opening the garage side door at night turns on the outside light and the shop and shed door lights. Closing sets the 10 minute off timer.


In general sit down with a pad of paper and think about how you use lights. What logically gets used together? What behaviors do you want. Think of how you operate in general in any given day. Then try to fit the links to make the desired result as easy as possible.