What I learned Automating Blinds

One requirement is that everything be controllable by my Leviton Omni Pro II. I decided to go with Somfy because everyone seemed to support it and I know the Omni did as well.  Lowes, HD, 3-Day Blinds, JC Penny all supported Somfy motors. Everyone also said Hunter Douglas was twice the price, and I was told Hunter Douglas used to use Somfy motors for some blinds but they didn't anymore. 
 
I'm glad I went with Somfy. Everyone knows Somfy, and everyone has said great things about them. I also like that they support Z-wave, Zigbee, wired, you name it.
 
are you at all concerned about the range of the RTS system?  i went back and forth, as far as ordering the somfy blind tilt controller, and got scared away when i read that it's limited to about 30 feet of 'real world' range (60' advertised).  but somfy has one hell of a solid system for blind/drape controls, with plenty of awesome sensors and timers, so i really want it to work.  
 
please keep the thread updated when you get these all installed.
 
jkmonroe said:
are you at all concerned about the range of the RTS system?  i went back and forth, as far as ordering the somfy blind tilt controller, and got scared away when i read that it's limited to about 30 feet of 'real world' range (60' advertised).  but somfy has one hell of a solid system for blind/drape controls, with plenty of awesome sensors and timers, so i really want it to work.
Yeah, there are probably better open standards that Sofmy and Lutron could have used, like mesh standards, but maybe their systems predated those.
 
There are two ways to deal with the short range if it doesn't reach. Move the RTS II transmitter closer to the blinds, or use their repeater. At this point, I'm going to wait until the blinds are up to see if range is a problem.  According to Lutron and Somfy info, its not so much range that is a problem, as it is noise. The 434MHz band should be clear here. I can't think of much else that uses it except my GE alarm sensors, and their range is quite good.
 
We have and had various Somfy motors installed in our window coverings, controlled by RTS, RS485, dry contact and RS232. I found the best method of control for these motors to be RS485, as it is wired (no range issues), and provides the status of the shade back to the controller. So it is always updated correctly, even if the shade was opened manually or by a remote. RTS commands from the controller sometimes do not execute, and then the status gets out of synch, and no way to track the status if you use Somfy remote. You can also open and close the RS485 shade to 1% level accuracy from OpmniPro. I set some shades to different levels during the day depending on the sun level, for example.
 
Somfy motors are very quiet, but the overall noise also depends a lot on the installation specifics, like the brackets used, the leveling of the tube etc.
 
I wish I could wire them, but unfortunately that isn't possible here. Inless you build your house from scratch, that is a hard one. Even if the builder would wire it for you, at the crazy expensive prices they charge, it may not be worth it. Anyone interested in noise levels, there are some Youtube videos that demonstrate that pretty well. From what I have heard with Somfy, the battery operated motors are more noisy that the line-powered motors. I think the newer motors tend to be quieter than some older ones.
 
I've also come across this that looks interesting: http://www.autelis.com/shade-control-for-somfy-rts.html
It connects to the Somfy RTS II transmitter, and the Internet. Lets you control the drapes/blinds with timers or on the Internet. Since it uses the serial port on the RTS II, it has a virtual serial port which you can access with a RS-232 to IP converter.  So you could connect the converter to the Omni Pro II, then place the RTS II anywhere in your house with an Ethernet connection.  Yes, I do know the Omni Pro II can control the drapes with timers and I will have Internet access to the panel as well with HAIku, but offloading some timers to this box seems like a good idea.
 
picta said:
Somfy motors are very quiet, but the overall noise also depends a lot on the installation specifics, like the brackets used, the leveling of the tube etc.
Thanks for your post!  Excellent info.
 
Which brackets and other parts would yield the quietest installation?
 
During a remodel in 2009 we had wire pulled to a window header for blinds, but we didn't install blinds at that time because we found it difficult to discover how loud/quiet different blinds motors were short of buying them and testing them ourselves.  Your post is the first I've heard about brackets significantly affecting perceived noise. 
 
Also consider just how much automation you actually need, and where it might not be appropriate.  As in, don't bother automating windows that aren't going to have their shade positions changed all that often.  Or don't put them in a guest room where someone unfamiliar with operating them might end up destroying them while attempting to just open or close it.  Same thing with kid or play rooms, no sense spending all that money just to have it get wrecked.
 
I'm leaning toward some Hunter Douglas units, mainly because they're the only folks that make a range of bottom-up shades, that can be automated.  The kind that allow for lowering the honeycomb so that the top portion of the window is open.  They also make one where there top portion can be light-passing while the bottom is blackout.  This way during most days the light-passing part will be used, at night it'll pull up the blackout part, while still being capable of pulling the whole thing up for no coverage.
 
Supposedly Hunter Douglas is revamping their automation interfaces and will be releasing it this July.  
 
wkearney99 said:
Supposedly Hunter Douglas is revamping their automation interfaces and will be releasing it this July.  
I believe Hunter will be dropping all current PowerRise systems and moving to the new PowerView.  What the control options are going to be isn't clear yet, but I believe among other things it will have RS-232 control in some form.  I've also heard rumblings that it may be slightly lower priced.
 
I'm expecting to see it at the new product introduction next Friday (5/15).  I'm only speculating, but the rumblings are that it will be there.  I know they are planning on having it available for purchase July 1.
 
NeverDie said:
Thanks for your post!  Excellent info.
 
Which brackets and other parts would yield the quietest installation?
 
During a remodel in 2009 we had wire pulled to a window header for blinds, but we didn't install blinds at that time because we found it difficult to discover how loud/quiet different blinds motors were short of buying them and testing them ourselves.  Your post is the first I've heard about brackets significantly affecting perceived noise. 
 
It's best to use the brackets that are recommended by the blind/shade manufacture, but also the installation is very important. You have to make sure that the brackets are installed firmly, do not wobble, have enough room for the fabric to roll, but not too loose. The motor has to be perfectly level, because any mis-allignment will increase the torque and the noise. We found some of our window frames were slightly unlevel, and that made installing the shades inside the window more challenging. The easiest to install were the outside mounted shades, they had more leeway to work with and the valance would cover up the wire and all imperfections.
 
NeverDie said:
Who makes the quietest motors for blinds?
 
Lutron's shades are the quitest out there, at 44 dBa at 3 feet. Hunter Douglas is much noisier, measured at 62-64 dBa. From what I heard about Somfy, it is comparable to Hunter Douglas.
 
zenix said:
Lutron's shades are the quitest out there, at 44 dBa at 3 feet. Hunter Douglas is much noisier, measured at 62-64 dBa. From what I heard about Somfy, it is comparable to Hunter Douglas.
Honestly there are so many models with new ones out all the time, that it is not very realistic to say this company is louder than that company.  The Somfy Sonese 30 RTS motors that our blinds will have are speced at < 44 dBa at 3 ft. So it doesn't look like "Lutron's shades are the quitest out there" anymore.  https://www.somfysystems.com/file.cfm/Sonesse_30_Databook_newest.pdf?contentid=153429
 
The Somfy Glydea 35 drapery motor we are using is speced at 50 dBa at 3 ft. 
 
ano said:
Honestly there are so many models with new ones out all the time, that it is not very realistic to say this company is louder than that company.  The Somfy Sonese 30 RTS motors that our blinds will have are speced at < 44 dBa at 3 ft. So it doesn't look like "Lutron's shades are the quitest out there" anymore.  https://www.somfysystems.com/file.cfm/Sonesse_30_Databook_newest.pdf?contentid=153429
 
That's good to know - may be I will pick a few up to retrofit some manual HD shades. Thanks.
 
wkearney99 said:
Also consider just how much automation you actually need, and where it might not be appropriate.  As in, don't bother automating windows that aren't going to have their shade positions changed all that often.  Or don't put them in a guest room where someone unfamiliar with operating them might end up destroying them while attempting to just open or close it.  Same thing with kid or play rooms, no sense spending all that money just to have it get wrecked.
That is a really good point that we grappled with as well. Initally, we expected to automate about 50% of the blinds, but when thinking about it more you can look at it one of two ways 1) decide what windows you want to automate OR 2) decide what windows NOT to automate and automate the rest. So doing a few very used windows makes sense, or NOT automating a few never used windows makes sense. But if your near the 50-50 zone, that really DOESN'T make sense. That is where we were initially, and you get to this point of automating this one but not that one and this one but not that one. Just too confusing.  In the end we decided to automate them all except one in the bedroom that we never open, and one in the back that was just too narrow to automate.
 
Do shop around because price varies greatly from one dealer to the next. We found the dealer that knew the most about the automated blinds was actually the cheapest. I think the others that didn't know much padded in some extra money, just in case. We can automate almost all our windows for cheaper than another dealer where we only did half the windows. Also, having them installed professionally was CHEAPER than if I bought the motors and added them myself. So unless you are a DIY because you REALLY want to be, I'd recommend a blinds place because it can actually be cheaper in the end.
 
We've put up with the temporary shades the past year as a way to really see what we would or wouldn't want to have automated (or clearly not at all).  
 
Are you talking 50/50 as to the number of windows being automated, or how often the blinds would be changed?  
 
I don't think there's any numeric ratio of windows that makes or breaks the idea.  For me it's one of marital harmony, automating some of the windows will keep us both happy.  Having automation in places where we'd differ on our motivations for having the blinds open or closed will go a LONG way toward avoiding irritation.  I can set schedules to open/close them as my wife likes, and go back to where I like otherwise.
 
For us, going with bottom-up shades will make for better solutions in places where we want more light but also need privacy.  The master bath being the prime example.  Over the past year we've had the temp shades up just high enough for privacy, while allowing full exposure through the upper portion.  As a result it's clear that manual bottom-up 'cordless' shades will suffice.  One the rare occasions that we'd want full exposure or coverage it'd be a simple matter to just move them manually with the on-shade handle (no ropes).  This avoids spending for motors on five windows.  Same thing with other places like a hallway, laundry and exercise rooms.  Bearing in mind that we're on a suburban lot, so there's no 'view' we have any need to make more visible.  Were we situated somewhere with much more interesting views then, yeah, we'd definitely be thinking about automating more, in order to keep those views visible.  
 
I'd like to think this addresses the should we or shouldn't we automate question (perhaps also your 50:50 ratio).  The bottom-up style allows for gaining light-passing privacy without losing being able to see daylight.  We'll also be using the same kind of bottom-up shades, but in an automated setup for our living and adjacent dining room.  Here we've got a lot of windows, and we'd like to keep the option of seeing the daylight sky.  Most weekdays we'll have them automated for half-way up, and then fully open on the weekends.  This is seven separate sashes, so it'll be spendy.  But worth it for the convenience and, honestly, a bit of a guest 'wow factor'.
 
While I'm certainly capable of DIY, I'm definitely having these installed.  If only because it was among my childhood chores to re-do all the window treatments as the seasons changed.  What fun, switching from traverse rod drapes to sheers, and re-tightening or replacing the old spring-wound roller shades.  It'll be a cold day in Hell for me to go through that again willingly...    There are definitely a lot of little tricks involved with properly hanging it all.... once.  I'll be glad to trade my money for being able to badger someone else to get it right.
 
That and noise isn't a huge factor for anywhere other than the bedrooms.  And we'll likely only be automating the ones in the master suite anyway.  Kids & guest rooms won't get it because of the abuse/damage potential.  I suppose it does raise the question of just how quiet they'd "have to be" in order to avoid sleep issues.  But I don't really foresee much in the way of problems unless they grind like a coffee mill.  I'd likely fine tune their scheduling to avoid motion while anyone's nearby anyway, further reducing an big concerns about noise. 
 
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