What lighting protocol to use with Elk M1

[Philament]

I finally got the security on the m1 up and running after moving into a house.  I now want to look into the automation and wanted thoughts on the different lighting protocols with the Elk (UPB, zwave etc.).
 
I am thinking UPB due to its reliability but any advice or comments are appreciated.  The house is all recessed lighting and there are a lot of switches which are the dimmable Lutron Maestro and most of them are 3/4 way switches.  Price isn't a main concern but I would want to keep each switch to sub $100 which shouldn't be a problem with most protocols.

 

[mikefamig]

I'm no pro but when I was choosing a protocol for lighting automation I chose UPB. I just couldn't see any reason to choose a wireless protocol that is susceptible to RF interference over a system that uses existing wires. It's been three years and I've had no problems.
 
Mike.

 

[ano]

UPB is the best, but as someone with maybe 50 switches, here is my advice:
 
1) First you said that you have many 3-way or 4-way switches, but DO NOT get tempted into using a UPB "remote" switch. They are a bad idea.  In theory they can remotely control a regular switch, but there are problems. First, they don't feel like regular switches and second their indicators don't match regular switches.  So instead, consider putting a regular UPB switch at each location, and connect them with a link.  This gives you more flexibility because then ANY UPB can be programmed to control ANY UPB switch.  In other-words, your not locked in to use set switches to control any particular light. 
 
2) You'll here arguments here, but I recommend to stay away from Simply Automated, and instead either go with Leviton or PCS/PulseWorx or both. Here is the reason, and it goes a bit back. PCS/PulseWorx owns and created the UPB standard, which Leviton and Simply Automated licensed.  All was good in the beginning, but for whatever reason, Simply Automated and PCS had problems maintaining their relationship, and again, for whatever reason, Simply Automated stopped paying licensing to Simply Automated.  So what does this mean? Basically, Leviton and PulseWork switches gained Generation 2 and Generation 3 firmware, while Simply Automated is "stuck" at Generation 1.  Why that is bad is because Generation 2 added support for repeaters, which Simply Automated switches do not fully support.  Now you don't have to use a repeater and could use a bridge, but its really nice to have the option if you should really need it.  (This is a simplification)
 
If you REALLY like the Simply Automated switches, contact the company Web Mountain because they buy Simply Automated switches and update their firmware to Gen 2 or Gen 3. 
 
So long story short, UPB is the best, but with some caveats.

 

[mikefamig]

anno
 
Thanks for the tip ion the four-way remote switch.
 
Mike.

 

[upstatemike]

If generation 2 added support for repeaters what did generation 3 add? Also how well do UPB repeaters get along with X10 repeaters?

 

[ano]

If generation 2 added support for repeaters what did generation 3 add? Also how well do UPB repeaters get along with X10 repeaters?

Saying Gen 1 doesn't support repeaters is really only 1/2 correct.  They support repeater in the forward direction, just not in the back direction.
 
As for Gen 3, this is what Leviton says here: http://www.homeauto.com/newsandevents/pressreleases/content/20120430HLCGenIII.asp
HAI Gen III UPB includes improvements to the core UPB technology and better tolerance for power frequency variations and interruptions in the dimmers.  Gen III dimmer and non-dimming switches allow the user to configure the device as dimming or non-dimming in the field locally at the switch using the rocker. Dimmer and non-dimming switches now feature an automatic timeout so that the light automatically turns off and an optimized TRIAC drive.  Gen III UPB is compatible with all previous generations of UPB products.
 
HAI also seems to have lots of good info here: http://kb.homeauto.com/print.asp?id=486&Lang=1&SID=
 
X-10 and UPB work completely different. X-10 places I high-frequency tone on the powerline. UPB introduces voltage spikes. As far as I have seen, neither bothers the other.

 

[Philament]

Does the pulseworx module for the Elk M1 allow you to use Leviton UPB switches as well or do I become locked into only Pulseworx devices?

 

[ano]

Does the pulseworx module for the Elk M1 allow you to use Leviton UPB switches as well or do I become locked into only Pulseworx devices?

Nope they all should work great. Its only the Generation that you have to watch. Leviton switches do support HCL which is Leviton's specific system for the Omni panel, but they also support everything for UPB.  If you do get Leviton, and I use their switches and like them, be careful of ONE thing. They have a switch made JUST for LED lights, so you would think that would be best for LED lights. In my opinion, their regular dimmers work better with LED lights.  If you have LED lights, I would buy one switch and try them first. Different LED lights work differently, so for me at least, the normal dimmers don't flicker, where the LED dimmers do. Go figure.

 

[Philament]

Nope they all should work great. Its only the Generation that you have to watch. Leviton switches do support HCL which is Leviton's specific system for the Omni panel, but they also support everything for UPB.  If you do get Leviton, and I use their switches and like them, be careful of ONE thing. They have a switch made JUST for LED lights, so you would think that would be best for LED lights. In my opinion, their regular dimmers work better with LED lights.  If you have LED lights, I would buy one switch and try them first. Different LED lights work differently, so for me at least, the normal dimmers don't flicker, where the LED dimmers do. Go figure.

 Thanks a lot.  I think my plan is to get a few switches, the elk pulseworx module and the split phase repeater (SPR-1) and start tinkering.  It is a larger home with a sub-panel and I think I will be best off with the SPR vs the passive phase coupler.
 
Thanks everyone!

 

[ano]

 Thanks a lot.  I think my plan is to get a few switches, the elk pulseworx module and the split phase repeater (SPR-1) and start tinkering.  It is a larger home with a sub-panel and I think I will be best off with the SPR vs the passive phase coupler.
 
Thanks everyone!

Yes, you are much better off with a repeater. And by the way, the Leviton split phase repeater is the EXACT same as the PulseWorx repeater, they are both made by PulseWorx, so buy the one you get the best deal on.