Where to go after X10

[evetsmd]

With the Holidays here, I'm seeing lots of sales and thinking maybe it's time to take advantage
 
Currently using Homeseer Ver 1.7.25, Act103, (7) X10 lamp controllers........reliability is marginal and I';m thinking I'm way past the time to upgrade.
 
If you were starting a new, initially with lighting, but with an interest to expand into security and more,    what hardware would you invest in?
 
Reliable control is very important, I'm tired of waking up in the morning with lights still on and not interested if I can't make things happen the way they should.
 
My Homeseer version is old but it's been more than enough for X10.....
 
Thanks for any help!
 
 

 

[pete_c]

Personally here I have multiple X-10 CM11's and TW523's online.
 
I did also have a TI103 installed sometime in the early 2000's.
Never had good luck with them; so I quit using them. (after playing with more than one).  This was my opinion and I never went back to using the ACT TI103. 
 
I sent a TI213 and an XTB IIR (for UK voltage) over to the UK for testing a couple years ago.  (2011)
Note that this was probably the first made for the UK devices from both companies.  Never posted any messages regarding this little endeavor on this forum or the Homeseer forum.
 
I never heard anything regarding comparisons between the two devices.
 
I started using Homeseer around 1998 with a CM11A.  It worked fine.  I was using HS V1.X up until sometime during the 2000's.
I also tried and used the TW-523 with the Ocelot and Homeseer and it too worked just fine.
 
I did move it to being adjacent to the fuse panel at the time and did extend the RS-232 cable from the basement to the 2nd floor at the time.
 
Sometime in the 2000's switched over to using the original XTB booster with the TW523 - never looked back as it worked just fine.
Today I use both devices in my mix of X10 stuff (added Linux to X10 stuff a couple of years ago). (such that its only XTB stuff and CM11's and TW523's today).
 
XTB
 
Most recently added the new XTB-IIR and it too works great; I have no complaints.
 
XTB-IIR

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

The biggest problem in getting X-10 to work in a home is to condition your powerline so it is free from signal sucks and get a good coupler repeater mounted near the breaker box.  This is my favorite thread relating to this problem.
 
The ONLY way you will achieve this is by testing with a signal strength meter, then isolating offending items with signal blocks.  It is an endeavor worth doing for reliable X-10 service.
 
I also use HomeSeer ver 1.7 with an Ocelot and an Elk M-1, plus other items.
 
Two problems you will have in upgrading is cost and drivers for the latest technology with your version of HomeSeer.
 
One issue you have not mentioned is how much you are willing to invest in a newer scheme.

 

[tmbrown97]

UPB is similar enough to X10 in that it's powerline based but with a MUCH stronger signal.  I grew up around X10, but it never worked in my house.  UPB works really well though for me - been using it for about 6 years.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I've read a ton of posts here over the years, and I am under the conclusion that there is no Holy Grail of lighting technology.  UPB, Insteon, Z-Wave and X-10 all seem to have problems experienced by many people (just read the posts).
 
I understand a LOT of people are happy with their selection, and it has worked out for them, but there seems to be no apparent 'stand out' winner.

 

[tmbrown97]

:hesaid:
 
So true - with many things in the HA industry, there are just so many ways to skin that same cat that it's hard to recommend a single solution.  That's why our advice generally comes down to "look at these options and come up with your own conclusion" because people always have different motivations for choosing the systems/protocols that they choose and no one solution is perfect in all ways.
 
Luckily CT is unbiased and can point to all the different options, but it does leave the buyer to do their own research.  I spent months reading this forum before I bought anything and before I became a regular contributor - it was a lot of time and effort, but I'm pretty happy with most of my choices and they've been in place for about 6 years.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

No doubt about some systems working out well.  I just like to point out that given the amount of money one needs to invest, there are no guarantees.  Also, something I did not mention earlier is it may be wise to test different technologies with a couple of devices before investing large sums in them.  Detailed investigation and research is important as you pointed out.
 
I often wonder if the house/building itself has built in 'skill factors' that is causing one technology to be superior over others in certain installations (such as wiring quality, general noise in power lines, one vs two stories, metal vs plastic switch housings, current appliances in the home, etc...).

 

[pete_c]

I've read a ton of posts here over the years, and I am under the conclusion that there is no Holy Grail of lighting technology.  UPB, Insteon, Z-Wave and X-10 all seem to have problems experienced by many people (just read the posts).
 
I understand a LOT of people are happy with their selection, and it has worked out for them, but there seems to be no apparent 'stand out' winner.

 
+1
 
Yup here transitioned and kept the old technology such that in house #1:
 
1 - X10 - kept it going fine after upgrading to using XTB with my CM11's and TW523's (and adding this stuff to the HAI OPII panel)
2 - Insteon - added the then combo X10 and Insteon switches and it worked for a while.  BTW every automated wall switch was Insteon in the first half of the 2000's.
3 - UPB - Started slowly with one floor of two floors totally transitioned over to UPB; then added a bit at a time until two years ago replacing all of the Insteon leftover stuff to UPB
4 - Z-Wave - always had a few around connected to both Homeseer and the HAI OPII panel (never purchased battery devices).
 
Primary lighting technology today is UPB.  Insteon is almost all gone.  I have three small Z-Wave networks and no battery devices running. Playing today with wireless X10 and X10 Linux devices doing this and that and utilize X10 now for the Christmas lighting; fast and easy to set one housecode for all of the Christmas lighting.
 
Two houses
 
House #1 - experiment - 2 story 1/2 brick with metal conduit / boxes for electric - what I mentioned above
House #2 - Just X10 switches and HAI OPII panel - years functioning with no problems - house is all cement (literally) and using all romex for electricity with plastic boxes.

 

[picta]

I often wonder if the house/building itself has built in 'skill factors' that is causing one technology to be superior over others in certain installations (such as wiring quality, general noise in power lines, one vs two stories, metal vs plastic switch housings, current appliances in the home, etc...).

 
This is a right thought, especially regarding consumer products. The term "industrial quality" is used for a reason, commercial products are much more rigorously tested for application variables.
 
To OP: if you want reliability, go with commercial technology, like Centralite or RadioRA2, but it will be more expensive than X10. UPB can also work, unless you live in mufti-family building. It'll be more reliable compare to X10, but it is also powerline based, so you'll still need a phase coupler and noise filters.

 

[Madcodger]

I have to say that my Insteon network is very reliable now.  I do lose a switch or two every year due to failure of the switch, but that's out of about 40.  If you can live with that, it's a reasonable price point for "average user" residential equipment.  A definite improvement over X10, and a much lower price point than industrial / commercial equipment.

 

[picta]

Insteon is a lottery, it works for some and usually small installations, but fails in others. I personally could never make it work, a friend fell for these seemingly inexpensive and readily available devices, got an Isy, but could not make switches in 2 locations to communicate in his brand new 1200 sf condo. After several returns, and hours with phone support, he finally gave up and replaced all devices (a lot of $$) with centralite jetstream. Everything works since, including the 2 "dead" switches.

 

[evetsmd]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.....I'm not looking for an elaborate system......just a RELIABLE one.......having said that most of what I want is lighting control.
I have the older Homeseer V1.7, it looks like it will handle Z-Wave (can anyone confirm?)......so I'm thinking a slow transition to Z-Wave from X-10
 
My assumptions, Homeseer can work with both systems at the same time?????   keeping some of the X-10 stuff going while I switch to a new Z-Wave system
 
Next question is which controller.....would like to buy for the future so looking at not lowest cost but also not most expensive but still able to work should I
decide to make the system more elaborate - need advice as which one to buy.....also would like the controller to work with other software than Homeseer (any suggestions?)
Reason is Homeseer is expensive just for controlling lighting although I do like the server capability and control via the web.....
 
Trying to take advantage of the Black Friday Sales so soonest advice would be appreciated......
 
Thanks
 

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

If you are going to upgrade your lighting, you might want to also consider upgrading HomeSeer.  They are having a Black Friday sale:
 
Coupon Code
BFR-50P
 
HS3 (Full)
$124.97 (reg. $249.95)
 
HS3 (Upgrade from HS2)
$62.47 (reg. $124.95)
 
HS3PRO (Full)
$299.98 (reg. $599.95)
 
HS3PRO (Upgrade from HS2)
$237.47 (reg. $474.95)
 
HS3PRO (Upgrade from HS3)
$192.47 (reg. 384.95)
 
HS3PRO (Upgrade from HSPRO)
$62.47 (reg. $124.95)


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[evetsmd]

Thanks...I've seen this but the old version works just fine for X-10.....it looks like it supports Z-Wave but not sure to what extent.
I'd like to spend the money on new hardware first just to get started with z-wave.....
 
could still use some advice on my last post....
 
Thanks for the update

 

[pete_c]

Personally I do not recall that the HS V1.X was able to talk to Z-Wave.  I have an old running (but not on) setup and will look.
 
I purchased the Zee when it was introduced.
 
The little HS Zee does X-10 and Z-Wave.  I have tested both.  The Zee comes with an Aeon Z-Wave stick and does HS3 "lite".
 
It is running on debian; the web gui is almost the same as the HS3 running on wintel.
 
I have tested running HS3 Pro on the Zee.  I couldn't get it to run.  I also shut down HS3 on the Zee and currently testing the remote UPB 3rd party plugin talking to a 64bit Ubuntu box running HS3 Pro and it works fine.  The remote plugin thing is a milestone.
 
I am looking to utilize the new HS3 Leviton HAI plugin as a "remote plugin" to the HS3 Pro setup.