Who uses URC?

[mikefamig]

No, but I moved all my logic out of the URC and into CQC as it's more powerful. CQC didn't know what activity was occurring with the MX unless I had an IR receiver and also added an action for that in the macro. Now I just start the first bit of the activity with what the Harmony can control, and CQC does what it can't (ie lower the PJ screen via hardwired control). Or whatever if/then logic I want.

I just hope that they don't stop selling the complete control devices for a long time.

 

[johnboy70_99]

I was able to move all my logic to homeseer by feeding my ocelot from my MRF-3F receiver, and programming IR commands.

 

[Waynedb]

It's the usual thing most likely. There's limited revenues available from DIYers for higher endy products; but, if you sell to DIYers, it costs you with integrators because they don't want to compete against direct sales. So it can sometimes be a financial necessity to limit sales to pros.

 
  I don't see anyone calling for direct sales to D.I.Y. users, it does not cost the integrators anything. I always recommend Surf Remote because they are D.I.Y. friendly, they can also do installs for other users. 
 
I did not cost any integrator any money, they would not have gotten money for programming from me anyway, selling me a remote, or four in my case made them extra cash that might have gone to Logitech if URC remotes were not available to me. URC can set any policy they want, if they choose to deny my access to the newer remotes software then they have also removed any chance of me ever buying any of their new remotes, that means the dealer now gets nothing instead of sale profits.

 

[IVB]

  I don't see anyone calling for direct sales to D.I.Y. users, it does not cost the integrators anything. I always recommend Surf Remote because they are D.I.Y. friendly, they can also do installs for other users. 
 
I did not cost any integrator any money, they would not have gotten money for programming from me anyway, selling me a remote, or four in my case made them extra cash that might have gone to Logitech if URC remotes were not available to me. URC can set any policy they want, if they choose to deny my access to the newer remotes software then they have also removed any chance of me ever buying any of their new remotes, that means the dealer now gets nothing instead of sale profits.

 
Same argument for/against DRM in all fashion. Music, Video, etc.  
 
The question isn't whether it actually did, the question is whether there's a perception that it did. From my prior experience both blogging my path and then presenting/manning booths at industry events (ie CES/etc), I was granted access to various pro installer forums. There is a clear desire to use products where they can clearly be VARs. That doesn't mean 100% of installers, but alienating even 30% of potential sales is difficult for small companies to overcome.

 

[johnboy70_99]

I am guessing that they also might have decided that it wasn’t cost effective to have to provide direct support to end users

 

[Waynedb]

 URC was not providing support to end users, we don't need it anyway. Programming remote controls is not rocket science, anyone with half a brain can program these remotes.

 

[xlurkr]

 I have two MX-980 remotes and two of the In-wall KP-4000 models running through a MRX-1...
 
The KP-4000 is nice because it does IP control, I replaced a failing Insteon Keypadlinc with a regular Switchlinc and added a KP-4000 near the switch, it sends IP commands to my ISY-994i plus it can control lots of other stuff.

Back to our regularly-scheduled programming...
 
Funny.  I bought a couple of KP-4000s a few years ago.  I thought they'd be the perfect in-wall controller, but the hurdle of creating my own menus and graphics, and  creating new devices (or modifying existing ones) in Complete Control was just too much.  I applaud you for doing whatever it took to get them to work for you with the ISY.  I'd like to know more about how you use the two together.
 
I may still revisit them someday.  I still think that coupled to a smart controller, like CQC, they could do just about anything.  However, I just picked up a TKP-4000, which is the same device programmed to work with TC 1.0.  That will save me the trouble of creating the graphics and menus, as long as it does the things I need it to do.
 
-Tom

 

[xlurkr]

Oops...make that TKP-2000.  It's hard to keep these part #s straight.
 
-Tom

 

[Waynedb]

 I use the ISY REST interface to send comands over IP, here is a sample of what I used to turn on a light to full power 
Get\x20/rest/nodes/1%2062%201C%201/cmd/DON\x20HTTP/1.1\x0D\x0AHost:\x20192.168.1.180\x0AAuthorization:Basic\x20(Base64 encoded usernameassword)\x0D\x0A\x0D\x0A
 
I used an online converter to convert my usernameassword to Base64 do not use the ( ), for example if your username is username and your password is password you use usernameassword and it looks like this in Base 64 dXNlcm5hbWU6cGFzc3dvcmQ=

 

[Dean Roddey]

  I don't see anyone calling for direct sales to D.I.Y. users, it does not cost the integrators anything. I always recommend Surf Remote because they are D.I.Y. friendly, they can also do installs for other users. 
 
I did not cost any integrator any money, they would not have gotten money for programming from me anyway, selling me a remote, or four in my case made them extra cash that might have gone to Logitech if URC remotes were not available to me. URC can set any policy they want, if they choose to deny my access to the newer remotes software then they have also removed any chance of me ever buying any of their new remotes, that means the dealer now gets nothing instead of sale profits.

 
That could though get into a sticky legal situation, i..e how do you enforce a non-retail type sales policy when you openly allow integrators to get around it? Then someone comes along and effectively sets up a retail store in all but name, but how do you cut him off if he's just doing what it's known you've been allowing other integrators to do? That would be pretty slippery legal ground.
 
And other integrators would be saying, why am I losing margin because I have to compete on price against this other guy who is selling it for less because he has no support costs? So my customers are saying, look I can buy it from this guy for X and you are asking Y. I thought there was a no-retail sales policy?
 
It's amazing how many cans of worms there are laying around just waiting to be opened in this whole area.

 

[Waynedb]

 What no retail sales policy are you talking about? URC has a no online sales policy for the Complete Control line, it is the dealers option of whether or not they want to sell remotes without programming or give away the programming software. Even the no online sales policy is stupid, I can just order by phone from Surf Remote.
 
 If a dealer/integrator is losing sales to another dealer that undercuts them on price, well then welcome to the rest of the world where that is how things work, maybe the dealer needs to change how they do business. It is not my problem if a dealer can't compete with another dealer. If I don't like URC not wanting to sell Total Control line remotes to me as a D.I.Y. user, well then I won't buy from them anymore, I want to program my own remotes, I am not going to pay someone else to do it. 

 

[Dean Roddey]

What the integrator is always trying to avoid is that "Well I can buy it myself for less than that" argument that ends up sucking up so much of their time. It's not about competing against another integrator, which they have to do all the time, in terms of prices of installed systems. The integrator doesn't want to compete against another channel for the product, which de facto exists if folks are selling it directly to end users. And then having to argue with a customer why it costs more to buy it from them.
 
I'm not taking that position, I'm just explaining it, and it's a big thing for integrators. That's why they tend to walk away from products that have this issue if there is an installer only option available. Which is why smaller companies who depend on those integrators as sort of part of their their sales force, have to be careful about these issues, particularly if the business they lose wouldn't be remotely made up for by the business they gained by allowing it.
 
It's the same reason integrators don't want the products sold at retails stores and such, which is obviously even worse for them. Ultimately, if some integrator starts just selling a lot of the product through to end users for a lower cost because he has no overhead other than selling it, that's not that much different from a retail store doing it, and it is fairly against the spirit of the agreement that it would be a pro install only product.
 
Anyway, I'm not arguing with you. I understand your position and have run into myself often enough. But, I'm more sympathetic to it these days, having heard a lot of tales of woe from integrators.