Whole house automation over CAT5

[signal15]

I thought about doing Cat-7, but the price difference was huge, and I don't have any runs over 100M. I have one run that's about 75 meters, but that's fiber, and I currently don't need 10G on it, it's just 1G. The 10G SFP for my switch is spendy, although I'm sure I'll get one for free at some point from a vendor.

If you have the ability to wire because things are open, do it. Wire is cheap. I have ran WAY more wire than I'll ever need to every possible corner of my house. I ran conduit for difficult runs so I can pull new stuff at some point if needed. Once my basement is finished, I'm done running wire, so I need to get everything in that I want. And Cat-6 is so flexible in how many different things you can use it for, it just seems like the logical choice.

I don't know of any IP based security sensors right now, like motions. If there are, they are probably ridiculously pricey. But, at least I have the option to do IP to all locations in the future if I want, which includes installing more cameras, or CyberData SIP intercoms.

And even with all the wire I ran, I found that I need to run more to some places. I ran 6 jacks to my office, but now I need more. I have two IP phones, a printer, and 3 computers in here. If I'm setting up a piece of equipment and need another jack, something needs to get unplugged or switched over to slow wireless (I move BIG files between my computers and NAS).

 

[sic0048]

Why no wireless or powerline control?

There are a lot of great lighting systems out there like RadioRa2 and Jetstream Centralite that use wireless signals. Again, it seems that you have a preconceived idea of the "best" way to wire all this, but without any real hardware choices made, and without any thought about what is currently considered "best practices" for today and tomorrow. Even Crestron (which builds the most successful and high end automation system components out there today) doesn't do what you are asking for. They use a mix of wireless, fiber and wire (but not cat7).

I'd simply ask that you put aside your preconceived ideas, and be willing to look at what is being used today and what the experts expect the future to hold. As it is, I feel like you are trying to force a square peg in a round hole for some unknown reason.

 

[signal15]

Why no wireless or powerline control?

There are a lot of great lighting systems out there like RadioRa2 and Jetstream Centralite that use wireless signals. Again, it seems that you have a preconceived idea of the "best" way to wire all this, but without any real hardware choices made, and without any thought about what is currently considered "best practices" for today and tomorrow. Even Crestron (which builds the most successful and high end automation system components out there today) doesn't do what you are asking for. They use a mix of wireless, fiber and wire (but not cat7).

I'd simply ask that you put aside your preconceived ideas, and be willing to look at what is being used today and what the experts expect the future to hold. As it is, I feel like you are trying to force a square peg in a round hole for some unknown reason.

You still need wire for a lot of things, and don't know when you might need it in the future. I keep planning on buying some more Jetstream stuff, but I get the impression that the product does not receive a lot of attention from them. I'm worried about spending a ton of money on it and having it go away. It wouldn't be an issue if it supported the Zigbee HA profile and other manufacturers were making compatible devices, but that's just not the case right now.

 

[ddennerline]

If I had my walls open today, I would probably install eXapath in-wall cable pathways (http://www.homepathproducts.com/homepath/index.php). It’s rather difficult to predict where every HA device may be installed. If 2-3 Exapath raceways were installed at strategic wall locations, then supporting any type of HA or multimedia device would be feasible.

Opening up walls is much more expensive than cost of any cable technology. I am still patching and repainting (no fun).

As an example, I may have to install a CO detector near my gas water heater (due to potential upgrade). Even I had run cat5 to all the junction boxes, then I would still have to open the wall to extend the run up the wall.

At least for me, using only 50% of cat5 cable to hook up a motion sensor seemed like a waste of resources. I decided to use the wire that matched the device. In addition, you can’t use cat5 for smoke, heat, or CO detectors.

 

[wuench]

If I had my walls open today, I would probably install eXapath in-wall cable pathways (http://www.homepathp...epath/index.php). It’s rather difficult to predict where every HA device may be installed. If 2-3 Exapath raceways were installed at strategic wall locations, then supporting any type of HA or multimedia device would be feasible.

Opening up walls is much more expensive than cost of any cable technology. I am still patching and repainting (no fun).

As an example, I may have to install a CO detector near my gas water heater (due to potential upgrade). Even I had run cat5 to all the junction boxes, then I would still have to open the wall to extend the run up the wall.

At least for me, using only 50% of cat5 cable to hook up a motion sensor seemed like a waste of resources. I decided to use the wire that matched the device. In addition, you can’t use cat5 for smoke, heat, or CO detectors.

That exapath looks pretty cool. It's about time someone came up with something like that...

I agree about using CAT5 for sensors, but because of the issues when you terminate at the head end. If you do use CAT5 everywhere you need to do what Signal15 was saying and punch it all down first separately. If you tried to directly run that into a regular HA cabinet or security can it's gonna fill it up fast.

 

[tmbrown97]

not just that - for smokes you need to use fire-rated wire... it would suck to not have your smoke alarm trigger your sirens because your Cat7 melted in the middle and shorted before it triggered.

And personally I hated working with Cat 5 for my motion sensors - will never do it again. 22/4 stranded is WAY easier to work with.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I really disagree with the concept of running Cat 'x' to sensors. Door/Window/Motion/Glassbreak sensors should have either one pair or two pair (as appropriate) 22 gauge wire because:

1. Cat 'x' wiring is a PITA to terminate into anything but a punchdown block or RJ connector.
2. Your wiring closet will have a lot of extra unused wiring, which will wind up being a mess.
3. 22 Gauge is a lot more robust wiring, especially if you use the stranded, and will not be subject to damage during the run like Cat 'x'.

 

[signal15]

I really disagree with the concept of running Cat 'x' to sensors. Door/Window/Motion/Glassbreak sensors should have either one pair or two pair (as appropriate) 22 gauge wire because:

1. Cat 'x' wiring is a PITA to terminate into anything but a punchdown block or RJ connector.
2. Your wiring closet will have a lot of extra unused wiring, which will wind up being a mess.
3. 22 Gauge is a lot more robust wiring, especially if you use the stranded, and will not be subject to damage during the run like Cat 'x'.

I disagree. 23awg cat-6 is easy to terminate into terminal blocks/strips. You do end up with unused wiring... but much of the time you do not. If I run a motion sensor, I'll probably use the unused pairs for a glass break somewhere along the run, and probably a speaker. If there are unused wires, then it's nice to know I have extra in the future if I need it. As long as you punch down everything at your panel, there's no mess. It's the cleanest wiring you can get.

 

[tmbrown97]

I just remember having a couple of issues caused by the little Cat6 wires breaking from too much manipulation - at both ends. Granted - I didn't have the space or the desire for the punch-down. Also, I prefer one wire for each sensor; cleanly labeled - I wouldn't want a single Cat 6 going to two separate sensors in differnet rooms. Just my personal opinion.

Stranded is a whole lot easier to work with; doesn't break, and in my opinion, it just looks cleaner. And if running something like speakers, it's easy to run a bunch of wires together into a wire-nut then pig-tail a more manageable pigtail to the panel's wiring.

Again - this is based on not having room anywhere for fancy (and in my opinion, unnecessary) terminations - that's what the Elk panel is for - I terminate into that - and pull any excess up into the attic or wall cavity above.

Seems like the OP has wandered away for a few days - so it may be a moot point.

 

[rismoney]

Can anyone recommend a good product/website to use and buy for conduit? Walls are open and want to provide some flexibility to run some future CAT5 cables from garage to attic. I estimate future growth to be about 6 additional cables if that helps with width...

Regards,
Rich

 

[Neurorad]

A good product line for flex conduit is Carlon ResiGard, or similar, available at electric supply stores.

I suggest you oversize the conduit, to allow for a few additional cables if needed.

 

[signal15]

A good product line for flex conduit is Carlon ResiGard, or similar, available at electric supply stores.

I suggest you oversize the conduit, to allow for a few additional cables if needed.

I'll second this stuff. I ran it for wiring and fiber and it's great stuff, pretty much indestructible. Although, I did notice that it can and will break if it's really cold and you bend it too sharply.

 

[Fiasco]

Trouble with those systems is they are very proprietary and typically do not support diy. They simply refuse to provide any of the software that is needed to program the systems. I had a friend with that setup and every time the slightest thing went wrong it was a $200 service call. And things went wrong a lot, several times he simply could not operate any lights in his house at all. And getting out of one of those systems is very challenging, he sold the house to get out.

My buddy had a bad experience with centralized lighting system....

There are so many things that could have been wrong from improper installation to poor choice of systems / bad design that have nothing do with a centralized topology. Some people have been burned buying a poorly constructed home. Shall we all move back to caves?

Correctly installed centralized systems from a quality manufacturer are the easiest to diagnose and service.