Why is insteon so infamous?
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upstatemike
Senior Member
So the Insteon motion sensors are going to be RF units? I was hoping for a motion sensing switch! I use a lot of Leviton stand-alone motion switches in hallways and stairways for "pass-through" lighting and I would not want to use a battery or RF device in those applications. When is somebody going to make a regular motion sensing switch that is also enabled with automation technology?
This was very apparent with the paddle issue. There were many, many posts about it here, AccessHA and SH own forum, yet you call for a replacement and you would get" that's the first I have heard about it" from the rep. Well then it must be your first !@#$ing day because the boards are filled with discussion about it.
SH should have handled that problem much better than they did. I would guess at that point they were in panic mode.
I think that any mfg would be in panic mode when they realize that 100% of production of the majority of their products at the time had in inherent flaw that could cause them to cease functioning within the warranty period.
Their stratagey was to deny it long enough for the warranty to expire on as many devices as possible to minimize their loss. Let teh customer pay for a new one at a higher price by that time and you have a winning situation and not a huge financial loss. Looks great on paper to upper management.
But it is this kind of behavior that if it ever got in front of a jury, SH would be looking at a HUGE punitive damage award that would be far larger than to man up and fix the problem.
KenM
Active Member
That is why I keep my 'evidence box' full of failed INSTEON devices. My defense in the case I was ever sued for a breach of a NDA. I used to be surprised that they did not go after me, for some of the posts that I have made. I now understand that that getting all of this information in front of an actual judge would be rather awkward for them.
Ken
SnyperBob
Active Member
I've actually wondered this myself. I'm relatively new to the whole HA scene, and I'm still trying to figure out of I should wait for Insteon to get their act together, or persue something else.
In every INSTEON bashing thread I've read, there's ALWAYS one or two people that post up stating they've never had any problems, they RMAd a few things and they replaced failed hardware really quick, etc, etc....
I always thought this was interesting, especially since those ppl's posts are 180* different from EVERYONE else.....
Ah well, I'll probably go with something other than Insteon when I'm ready to automate everything. Right now I'm just playing around with cheap x10 until I can figure out exactly what I'm looking for.....
upstatemike
Senior Member
This might be the best strategy. Personally I don't think any of the current lighting technologies are going to make it in the long run if they don't address the issue of field upgradable firmware. It would not be that difficult to put a cell phone style mini-usb plug under a switch paddle or on the side of a module and as we head towards the second decade of the 21st century I think tech savvy consumers are not going to tolerate firmware based products that cannot be "flashed" to fix bugs or add features.
Some new technology with field upgradable firmware will likely emerge in the next few years and be the "iPod" of automated lighting causing all of the existing standards to fade away pretty quickly.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
I agree with both of you. I have reliable X-10 now that I went through my home and blocked all the devices sucking the signal down (used a signal strength meter throughout the house).
Plus, you can get some killer X-10 deals from everyone else switching to a newer technology and selling their X-10 stuff!
Plus, you can get some killer X-10 deals from everyone else switching to a newer technology and selling their X-10 stuff!
I have had basically the same problems as all the others, paddle switch failure(which switch replacement cured).
SH not standing behind their warranty.
My conclusion was that Insteon is "just not ready for prime time". They have a real problem with linking
and unlinking all by themselves. The whole system is flakey at best.
I switched them over to X10 and they work fine. I did fine a cure for the X10 problems it is a device
called a XTB-IIR by JV Engineering. What it does is act as a repeater or will plug into a Elk M1G
or similiar devices. It transmits 20Vpp instead of a fraction of a volt like the PSC05 or TW523.
This seems to solve the X10 problems as all the devices get the signal they need. I suspect that
the original X10 was designed to work in just one room. Anyway in the last 6 months I haven't
had one mis-firing of a X10 device. Before some of them only worked part of the time.
Cliff s
SH not standing behind their warranty.
My conclusion was that Insteon is "just not ready for prime time". They have a real problem with linking
and unlinking all by themselves. The whole system is flakey at best.
I switched them over to X10 and they work fine. I did fine a cure for the X10 problems it is a device
called a XTB-IIR by JV Engineering. What it does is act as a repeater or will plug into a Elk M1G
or similiar devices. It transmits 20Vpp instead of a fraction of a volt like the PSC05 or TW523.
This seems to solve the X10 problems as all the devices get the signal they need. I suspect that
the original X10 was designed to work in just one room. Anyway in the last 6 months I haven't
had one mis-firing of a X10 device. Before some of them only worked part of the time.
Cliff s
Gee and the Fanboi's said I was the ONLY one that SH did not honor the warranty for. I guess I was just the loudest
Insteon should have been made by Ford..... Fix or repair daily applies more to Insteon then cars.
wuench
Senior Member
Besides all of the hardware failures, and misdirection from SH there is also what I consider a fundamental flaw with Insteon. That is the whole locally significant controller/linking paradigm. With Insteon there is no such thing as a Global Group. Each controller has it's own groups and they are only locally significant.
This means that if you have several controllers in a "group", you have to duplicate the links in each. In the end this makes it very difficult or even impossible to keep all of your controllers up to date with the status of the group. In practice the only way is to have one master controller on your Insteon network. That is why the UD/ISY devices have saved the Insteon day. They become a centralized controller that you ElkM1, PC, etc can talk to and all the groups are programmed into it.
It would have been so much simpler if SH had just made Global Groups like all the other manufacturers....
BTW, I have 12 Insteon switches I bought early on. All but one was replaced for the flicker problem, SH balked when I called to have that done even though it was an obvious problem, well documented, but they did their typical "I have never heard of that" crap. I have had my switches for 2 years now, and have not had the paddle issue, but that is probably because I rarely physically turn them on/off. I too am on the fence between going with UPB, ZWave, or continuing on with an Insteon/ISY setup... I have been waiting for two years and had hoped a clear winner would've emerged by now...
This means that if you have several controllers in a "group", you have to duplicate the links in each. In the end this makes it very difficult or even impossible to keep all of your controllers up to date with the status of the group. In practice the only way is to have one master controller on your Insteon network. That is why the UD/ISY devices have saved the Insteon day. They become a centralized controller that you ElkM1, PC, etc can talk to and all the groups are programmed into it.
It would have been so much simpler if SH had just made Global Groups like all the other manufacturers....
BTW, I have 12 Insteon switches I bought early on. All but one was replaced for the flicker problem, SH balked when I called to have that done even though it was an obvious problem, well documented, but they did their typical "I have never heard of that" crap. I have had my switches for 2 years now, and have not had the paddle issue, but that is probably because I rarely physically turn them on/off. I too am on the fence between going with UPB, ZWave, or continuing on with an Insteon/ISY setup... I have been waiting for two years and had hoped a clear winner would've emerged by now...
nightwalker
Active Member
I too went with Insteon a year and a half ago as i was replacing X10. I bought 2 lots of 10 switches. All but two have either gone back or are sitting in a box of junk. I just found the switches to be of poor quality and if i didn't know better had planned obsolescence of less than a year. I've since ripped them all out and gone UPB. I swore I'd never buy another thing from SH, not so much because i had to return some but because as you're trying to get an RMA number they are telling you that's the first they heard of that problem. That's not bad enough but when I called into them the second time to return a few more they told me the same thing. I just hate being lied to. I've Have had absolutely no troubles since switching over to UPB. For me there is a clear winner.
RandyKnight
Active Member
Count me in as a happy Insteon user. I've posted lots about this in other threads but I have over 100 loads and have had no problems. Guess I'm lucky. When building my house, I evaluated both UPB and Insteon and ultimately went with Insteon due to the UPB delay. Some poeple don't care ... we did. Totally sujective.
Ryan,
Those "positive threads" are years old (2004, 05) and were before the devices were out there and in use for any time. Once enough people were using them it came to light that there were significant hardware and firmware problems.
Many (not all) have been addressed. However, sometimes you fix one thing and break another. So just be careful if you go ahead with Insteon.
FYI there is a similar thread on SH Forum.
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