Why is insteon so infamous?

[sloop]

as for looks -

'if you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
get an ugly woman to be your wife
from my personal point of view
get an ugly woman to marry you'

yeah - i butchered the lyrics - but it all works in my pointy head
(and if you know the song i am talking about, it will be stuck in your pointy head for days)

i'm one of the insteon malcontents - about $4,875 (as best i recall) worth of discontent

'buy more and it will work better' was one of the lines i fell for

i got started on this fiasco because i returned to buy x10 replacement devices that had the 'paddle problem' - to find it discontinued - so that problem has been around since then - i too was told i was the only person that had encountered a paddle problem - in my mind, they were either liars or incredibly stoopid (probably deceptive) - either way, it is telling of their business practices

they will replace them for you - but i don't get excited about then honoring a warranty that they are bound to legally honor - i am also not a fan of them wanting a card number when i have spent thousands on their craplincs (and probably at least another $5,000 in x10 that are now trash)

do not buy into the line about how nice it is to 'mix and match' protocols - you can't get an x10 signal through the powerline with 64 craplincs - some go as far as stratigically placing the x10 powerline interface on an isolated circuit with no insteon - that is not going to happen in my world

last trade show i read about, smarthome was a no show - or their booth consisted for two folding chairs and someone pushing craplincs - so i am not sure where the 'rumors' would come from - but if you make the mistake of jumping onto the insteon sinking ship, you will only have rumor and hope to sustain you - smarthome won't acknowlegde problems - much less give a status of a fix - any info you might get is couched in carefully worded verbage about ndas - i can understand why they have to be careful - but it seems that an open protocol might be able to save the sinking insteon ship

(speaking of rumors - the high turnover one - anyone know why?)

you will also have the fanbois giving lines like this:

- i have no (insert competitor's name here) but let me tell you why it sucks
- you should be happy that smarthome is ignoring us and focusing on the really big accounts
- this is revolutionary - stop expecting it to work as advertised
- you have an ugly wife

and the like - if there is some affiliation they have with smarthome, i'd like it out in the open - because it has been denied several times - it would explain the devotion to a lightswitch though

i also feel kinda deceived that the signallincs were sold to me (4 of them) and seem to do nothing to help the powerline communications - and that they do not support the entire insteon protocol suite - i guess if i ever had something like a standalone controller that used the extended command format, the signallincs would not support that format - who knows

when i was trying to use houselinc (with x10 commands to sync the keypad secondary buttons), i was told my boosterlinc was not insteon blessed and to buy 2 more - another $200 sitting in the garage

seems that no two devices have leds that match - looks great in multigang boxes - but if it is night and the lights are off, your guests won't notice because they will be thinking how cheap the paddles look with the light bleeding through

i am thinking i could become accustomed to a delay when acting on a device if i knew it would eventually operate - with insteon, you never know if it will work or not

and i am not conceeding that insteon is instant - its not - and if calling a scene, there is considerable powerline traffic - during which, you are advised not to interrupt with more powerline traffic - so before pressing that paddle, call upstairs to the kids (on the cell phone if necessary) and tell them its your turn to turn off the light - that - or assign everyone a timeslot - their own personal lightswitch operating window

i also read that upb punches out a stronger signal on the powerline than insteon - fanbois stomp their feet and say the retries in insteon make up for the weak signal - just be sure the retries are in your allotted timeslot and don't step on someone else's because the retries will be more powerline traffic - in my experience, if the signal did not reach its destination the first time, sending it 3 (or 300) more times won't help

it seems to me that the people that are happiest with craplincs are the ones that have the fewest devices - especially the fewest keypads - i have 65 (every lightswitch) and 24 of them are keypads - i would recommend planning to use few of them

when i started buying insteon, i saw no disclaimers about this being such a revolutionary product that i should be happy with any successful operation and accept the failures - but i have come to believe that insteon is the product line of those with really low expectations

there is a reason insteon threads generate so much discussion (in my case, raging) - because it is problem plagued and the manufacturer's business practices leave its customers frustrated

the idea of a lawsuit is interesting - the fantasy questions during a deposition in the discovery process

- honorable witness sir, do you use craplincs in your own home?
- honorable witness sir, when did you have knowledge of the 'paddle problem'?
- honorable witness sir, why does the box say the device is warrented but customers can't get a replacement if they buy from home depot?
- honorable witness two sir, did your employer direct you to not acknowledge known problems?
- honorable witness 'b' sir, do you have any affiliation with the manufacturer or retailer other than as a customer?
- honorable witness supervisor sir, where is the plm i sent you months ago for testing?
- honorable witness sir, why didn't you offer a free extended warranty when the 'paddle problem' came to your attention?
- honorable witness sir, how much money is expended in marketing and sales of your product line and how much is spent on support and development?
- honorable witness sir, why do you think so many people are dissatisfied with your products?
- honorable witness sir, why didn't you offer to exchange the plms for homeseer users and blame their software developer?
- honorable witness sir, why did you discontinue the socketlinc and did you attempt to recall the units you sold?

all your question answered under penalty of perjury

*coughclassactioncough*

my advice is to choose any other product line - it has to be better

 

[sorka]

Though Insteon did go through a lull with few new products released, things have certainly changed in the past few months. SmartHome has started shipping many of their most requested products - a relay KeypadLinc, an IR interface, a thermostat, and a solution for locations without a neutral (their 2-wire kit).

I think most would agree that their most requested product would be a motion sensor that works with the access point. The EZIO version is hundreds of $$.

 

[sorka]

1.Only buy from SH or you are out of luck with warranty issues (Dont buy from a retailer and definitely stay away from eBay and forums for buying them as you will be stuck if there is a problem). SH only warrants the product to the original purchaser from SH (so if HD buys them from SH and sells to you then you are stuck). Automated Outlet though will stand behind what they sell.

Actually current(recent) consumer warranty laws that have gone into effect make this illegal. SH must warranty their product even if bought from a reseller.

 

[MikeB]

I think most would agree that their most requested product would be a motion sensor that works with the access point.

I agree, now, but I think the IR interface, thermostat adapter, and KPL relay were more important. Now that they're out, I hope we'll see motions and other products (maybe a keyfob remote, I hope).

For those unhappy customers, why not simply move on? There are plenty of people with working Insteon systems that will gladly buy your used devices. I've sold a handful of extra Insteon devices, no problem. The forums are great, eBay works, etc. If you are THAT unhappy with the product, why continue to buy new products and extend your misery? Life is too short.

As for the last EHX, SmartHome had a small booth on the show floor but were also busing people to the New Southern Home every few hours where they were holding demos and trainings.

 

[Digger]

I think most would agree that their most requested product would be a motion sensor that works with the access point.

I agree, now, but I think the IR interface, thermostat adapter, and KPL relay were more important. Now that they're out, I hope we'll see motions and other products (maybe a keyfob remote, I hope).

For those unhappy customers, why not simply move on? There are plenty of people with working Insteon systems that will gladly buy your used devices. I've sold a handful of extra Insteon devices, no problem. The forums are great, eBay works, etc. If you are THAT unhappy with the product, why continue to buy new products and extend your misery? Life is too short.

As for the last EHX, SmartHome had a small booth on the show floor but were also busing people to the New Southern Home every few hours where they were holding demos and trainings.

Mike,

To all those people you sold your new and used unwanted devices will SH honor the warranty for 2 years from date of your purchase? Did you provide them with your order numbers so if they have a problem they can exchange them? If not why would people buy them even if they are new in the box?

Since switches and dimmers are repairable for the tact switch problem the only major beef is the firmware problems and the weak PLM for a lot of people. SH said they would not exchange for firmware but then they did a 180 when HS users got upset that they were no honoring the warranty (lockups). For the weak PLM they are working on it. For the PLC the is a rumout they may dump it but I would hope not.

So........ if SH does not honor the warranty on what you sold to others will you? I would never want to stiff anyone and I would hope you would not either.

 

[Steve]

Wow Sloop, tell us how you really feel :unsure:

 

[upstatemike]

- if there is some affiliation they have with smarthome, i'd like it out in the open - because it has been denied several times - it would explain the devotion to a lightswitch though

OK, I admit it. I have been secretly on the Smarthome payroll for years and have accepted many all expense paid trips to exotic resort destinations from them in return for positive postings about Insteon on CocoonTech.

 

[sloop]

Wow Sloop, tell us how you really feel :unsure:

lol

i do get on a tear - i am not an ideal insteon user because i expect them to actually work

i have no interest in trying to unload my craplincs piecemeal for maybe half of what i paid for them - that is why i don't 'simply move on' - i'd rather hang out and warn other unsuspecting foos like myself that buying insteon would be a huge mistake

i have bought 2 outletlincs - but that is all - i hate looking at those wall warts but since insteon could not make an outlet (oh - that's right - they finally did), i had to use them - the lamps in my master bath were particularlly annoying to me - when one of my lamplincs failed (surprise!), i bought the outletlincs

i had x10 outlets and would have kept them - but you see with so many insteon devices, you can't get x10 signals through the powerline - i was told to use x10 with houselinc to sync the keypad buttons - so i bought houselinc and the plc - when that did not work, i was told 2 new boosterlincs would make it work - so i junked my old boosterlinc and paid $200 for 2 new insteon blessed boosterlincs

when that failed to work - the solution was to remove all x10 and go with the isy - so i added the x10 outlets to the insteon junk pile and had to buy lamplincs - i also had to sacrifice my phase coupler, keychain fobs, i/r interface, a rather expensive touchscreen device and anything else x10 to my insteon junk pile - much of which had (and some still have) no insteon equivalent

so the line about chooseing a variety of devices is not true if you have 65 insteon devices - but some keep pushing it to defend the shortcomings of the insteon product line

i was also told that accesspoints might work better than the 4 signallincs i have - but i may have learned my lesson that poring more money into insteon is folly - i don't see the offer to send in my signallincs and pay more money for some 'refurbished' craplinc as a bargain

its interesting that people complain about the insteon malcontents - they can't defend the product line or business practices so they want us to shut or 'move on' - sometimes call wives ugly

being a squeaky wheel does help - i was asked to write an e/mail detailing my history with insteon and send it to smarthome - which i did - very detailed - i never heard back from them until i posted it on their forum - i got a reply that day - not that anything was resolved

i then called their support about my 4a plm - i instisted 5 times to talk to their supervisor and amazingly got him - more lines about how i was the only one having problems but they asked me to send it in for 'testing' - after sending it, i never heard back from them until i posted the e/mails on their forum - got a call that day - saying it was performing great

i got one more call saying the same thing but that it was still being tested - no other word for a few months - guess i will have to post again to get my craplinc back

but the homeseer users can probably relate - the plm problems were so bad that all development was halted on the plugin until a working device was produced - evidently, there was a point man with the manufacturer assigned to work with them - but that point man mysteriously disappeared and it was dropped until homeseer had to contact them again - even with the renewed development efforts, the users that had early versions of the plm were told that the problem was homeseer and their plms would not be replaced - until enough public uproar forced their hand

though i have no proof, i strongly suspect the plm problems were only addressed because one (possibly two) new startup companies forced them to

but the fanbois want us to shut up, sell crpalincs to some unsuspecting foo at maybe half price and 'move on'

ain't gonna happen with me

 

[MikeB]

OK, I admit it. I have been secretly on the Smarthome payroll for years and have accepted many all expense paid trips to exotic resort destinations from them in return for positive postings about Insteon on CocoonTech.

LOL... did you get the free Insteon poster as well? :unsure:

so the line about chooseing a variety of devices is not true if you have 65 insteon devices - but some keep pushing it to defend the shortcomings of the insteon product line

Insteon and X10 can coexist on the powerline, though there are signal degradation concerns especially with ANY 2-way X10 devices. Certainly UPB and Zwave play nicely with Insteon. Insteon has a fairly complete product line - I'm just saying, if you're an Insteon user and want motions there's certainly nothing stopping you from going with X10 RF or even Zwave for now.

the plm problems were so bad that all development was halted on the plugin until a working device was produced

Funny how HomeSeer has more 'PLM issues' than any other software package I've seen, and funny how a working plug-in was suddenly released after a week of user complaints on the boards to the HomeSeer-hired programmer and HomeSeer management. Funny how people started complaining that other software vendors had stable PLM products, so why not HomeSeer? Funny how people started asking why HomeSeer advertised Insteon support when they didn't have a stable driver. Funny how people started questioning HomeSeer's motives and their interest in producing a good working Insteon driver, especially since they clearly have a financial interest in Zwave. The HomeSeer-hired programmer wasn't waiting for a new device - the firmware he now recommends had been shipping for months.

Funny how people can spin things any way they want to press a point. Bottom line is 1 week or so after HomeSeer users started complaining en masse, the hired programmer suddenly had a working driver.

 

[Digger]

OK, I admit it. I have been secretly on the Smarthome payroll for years and have accepted many all expense paid trips to exotic resort destinations from them in return for positive postings about Insteon on CocoonTech.

LOL... did you get the free Insteon poster as well?

so the line about chooseing a variety of devices is not true if you have 65 insteon devices - but some keep pushing it to defend the shortcomings of the insteon product line

Insteon and X10 can coexist on the powerline, though there are signal degradation concerns especially with ANY 2-way X10 devices. Certainly UPB and Zwave play nicely with Insteon. Insteon has a fairly complete product line - I'm just saying, if you're an Insteon user and want motions there's certainly nothing stopping you from going with X10 RF or even Zwave for now.

the plm problems were so bad that all development was halted on the plugin until a working device was produced

Funny how HomeSeer has more 'PLM issues' than any other software package I've seen, and funny how a working plug-in was suddenly released after a week of user complaints on the boards to the HomeSeer-hired programmer and HomeSeer management. Funny how people started complaining that other software vendors had stable PLM products, so why not HomeSeer? Funny how people started asking why HomeSeer advertised Insteon support when they didn't have a stable driver. Funny how people started questioning HomeSeer's motives and their interest in producing a good working Insteon driver, especially since they clearly have a financial interest in Zwave. The HomeSeer-hired programmer wasn't waiting for a new device - the firmware he now recommends had been shipping for months.

Funny how people can spin things any way they want to press a point. Bottom line is 1 week or so after HomeSeer users started complaining en masse, the hired programmer suddenly had a working driver.

FUNNY HOW THEY GUY HAD TO WAIT OVER A YEAR FOR A WORKING PLM>>> :unsure: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You really can twist things..... yes his software that was ready and waiting for months all of a sudden worked when they fixed the PLM. Funny how people with the older PLM's had to trade them in to get Homeseer to work. Gee.... and yet you claim there was nothing wrong with the PLM yet you had one of the new versions before almost anyone. Why trade up if there were no problems.

And I love how you say that the product line is complete now except for motions. I havent seen a Keyfob around yet. Oh my mistake you are right the remotelinc is the keyfob :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rah rah goooooooooooooo SH right!

You are in bed with these guys Mike admit it. Your website proudly shows you are partnered with them. We all knew it was something going on since you were on their homepage. Heck I can probably find the email from Laurie telling me to enter that contest and she would get me up there to. I chose not to let them bribe me into being a cheerleader by giving me free products for my wife etc and stood my ground and got them to fix the paddles and not let them silence me so they could sweep it under the table. Look how they thought it was just "mushy paddles" and not failing switches.

David:

More than reasonable request...Ryan will be in on Monday and we'll take care of you.

BTW, what is going on with the paddles (I think the main issue you've had)? Is it what I hear some people are calling a "mushiness" about them? We've probably got over 100 switches in our 2 homes and they all seem fine but I know I have heard others talk about some aren't firm feeling. SmartLabs has been rigorously testing this (I was a beta tester for them) and I believe they are at resolution (or close). I will find out for you tomorrow.

INSTEON is an incredibly powerful technology and while we still have some bugs to work out in some of the products, overall people seem to love the fact that it is much more reliable and faster than X10. Hopefully we can get things straightened out for you and you, too, will come
to enjoy our products as much as we do

Does your wife enjoy candles? If she does, I'd like to offer to send you what is one of my favorite applications of our INSTEON products. Throughout my home, I have these plug-in flickering realistic looking candles we sell plugged into appliancelincs + linked to both keypadlincs and controlincs so when I enter any room, with 1 button I can light the room up w/candles. The candles are so realistic looking, many people have tried to blow them out! If you think she would enjoy them, I'll send a couple (gratis) for your enjoyment. (Also, let me know if you already have a keypadlinc, controlinc or remotelinc + appliancelincs or lamplincs...you'll need at least 1 of each to make this work).

Laurie

Found it:

We have a pretty sophisticated QC dept/process, so I will check into this. I do know what you mean, we also did have 1 paddle go bad (on a Timer switch) that we had to replace.

Just a thought...would you have any interest in entering our "Home Control" contest we have going on? We are especially looking for video entries to see what kinds of applications people are doing w/INSTEON products. First prize is $1,000 worth of products (hint, hint)!

http://www.smarthome.com/ehiha07.html

(EHIHA month was over at the end of May, but our contest is still running thru June 15th).

 

[Digger]

1.Only buy from SH or you are out of luck with warranty issues (Dont buy from a retailer and definitely stay away from eBay and forums for buying them as you will be stuck if there is a problem). SH only warrants the product to the original purchaser from SH (so if HD buys them from SH and sells to you then you are stuck). Automated Outlet though will stand behind what they sell.

Actually current(recent) consumer warranty laws that have gone into effect make this illegal. SH must warranty their product even if bought from a reseller.

Yeah well SH could care less about a law. You will see posts from more than a few people who were screwed by SH.

 

[MikeB]

You really can twist things..... yes his software that was ready and waiting for months all of a sudden worked when they fixed the PLM. Funny how people with the older PLM's had to trade them in to get Homeseer to work. Gee.... and yet you claim there was nothing wrong with the PLM yet you had one of the new versions before almost anyone. Why trade up if there were no problems.

Again, the driver he released 'requires' a PLM firmware that had been available for months. He only decided to 'release' this driver once users started complaining. I've never claimed there were no issues with the PLM. Certainly there were lockup issues under heavy use with earlier firmware versions, but the vast majority of ISY users have been running very reliably for many months while HomeSeer users have been locking up quite often - with ANY PLM version. Also, if you read the threads on the HomeSeer forums, you'd see there are MANY complaints about the HomeSeer driver, completely unrelated to PLM issues. Lack of basic features (alphabetical sort) that were present on other drivers, lack of new device support, etc. It took one of their users to 'notice' how well the ISY was working with the PLM to cause a stir and get the HomeSeer-hired programmer to release a working driver. Kudos to him.

And I love how you say that the product line is complete now except for motions. I havent seen a Keyfob around yet. Oh my mistake you are right the remotelinc is the keyfob

NO automation product line is 100% complete, if you read you'd see I'm waiting for a keyfob product myself.

You are in bed with these guys Mike admit it. Your website proudly shows you are partnered with them.

My product has been in development for approximately 2 months, and my Insteon Alliance membership has existed for approximately 1 week. My product is written for the ISY (not Insteon directly), and will work with both Insteon and hopefully UPB in the near future. You'll see the PCS/UPB logo up on my page shortly. I have no particular loyalty to either Insteon or UPB, I think they are both great technologies with their own strengths and weaknesses and hope they both succeed.

 

[Digger]

You really can twist things..... yes his software that was ready and waiting for months all of a sudden worked when they fixed the PLM. Funny how people with the older PLM's had to trade them in to get Homeseer to work. Gee.... and yet you claim there was nothing wrong with the PLM yet you had one of the new versions before almost anyone. Why trade up if there were no problems.

Again, the driver he released 'requires' a PLM firmware that had been available for months. He only decided to 'release' this driver once users started complaining. I've never claimed there were no issues with the PLM. Certainly there were lockup issues under heavy use with earlier firmware versions, but the vast majority of ISY users have been running very reliably for many months while HomeSeer users have been locking up quite often - with ANY PLM version. Also, if you read the threads on the HomeSeer forums, you'd see there are MANY complaints about the HomeSeer driver, completely unrelated to PLM issues. Lack of basic features (alphabetical sort) that were present on other drivers, lack of new device support, etc. It took one of their users to 'notice' how well the ISY was working with the PLM to cause a stir and get the HomeSeer-hired programmer to release a working driver. Kudos to him.

And I love how you say that the product line is complete now except for motions. I havent seen a Keyfob around yet. Oh my mistake you are right the remotelinc is the keyfob

NO automation product line is 100% complete, if you read you'd see I'm waiting for a keyfob product myself.

You are in bed with these guys Mike admit it. Your website proudly shows you are partnered with them.

My product has been in development for approximately 2 months, and my Insteon Alliance membership has existed for approximately 1 week. My product is written for the ISY (not Insteon directly), and will work with both Insteon and hopefully UPB in the near future. You'll see the PCS/UPB logo up on my page shortly. I have no particular loyalty to either Insteon or UPB, I think they are both great technologies with their own strengths and weaknesses and hope they both succeed.

Your INsteon reliance for one week........so on 3/16 when you first announced your alliance it was the first day of it? You have been in bed with them since last summer.... admit it..... I got the same offer you did to "be a winner" and please accept these items gratis..... if I would be a cheerleader. I chose not to let them buy me.

 

[sloop]

so do you use insteon here?

http://www.mbaudiovideo.com/

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Why oh why does EVERY GOSH DARN INSTEON BASHING THREAD turn ugly? Enough, and I mean ENOUGH. It's Easter Sunday for crying out loud! :angry:

This thread is locked but the discussion can be continued (hopefully discussing TECHNICAL details) HERE.