window sensor wiring Vs Wireless

[doogan123]

Hi everyone - I am a noobie here, and have been looking through the posts to try to understand how to wire my windows. Let me give a quick history. I am building a new house. I have mostly andersen dbl hung 400 series windows. I am trying to find a place to run in the wire. I am a long way aways fron actually installing the alarm - however sheetrock is a week away!

I have attached a picture - of where i think is the right place to drill a little hole - maybe 1/4 inch or smaller. can anyone comment?

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/vm.../IMG_0595-1.jpg

Second option is to skip wiring the windows and use wireless - even tho i am a technical guy - i am skeptical of wireless. Is this a real option? are they reliable and effective?

Appreciate any help. I need to decide and run the wires in a couple of days!

thanks everyone

 

[sic0048]

I think that location would be fine, but I haven't installed them on that type of window myself. So I'll defer to the experts.

I will comment about wireless however. If you have the opportunity to hardwire, I would 100% recommend it. Wireless is fine and works as advertised. But it is more expensive - about $30-40 per device. So a $2-4 wired contact suddenly becomes a $32-44 wireless contact. A $30 wired glass break suddenly becomes a $60-70 wireless glass break. You would also have the added cost of the wireless receiver which can run another $100-200.

Also, the wireless devices require batteries. This isn't a big deal, but they should be tested regularly to make sure the batteries are still good.

So the hardwired system is going to be cheaper and more reliable (ie no batteries to go dead). Given that the wall are open right now, I would do whatever it takes to get those wires run before the drywall goes up.

 

[Neurorad]

Sounds like you're under the gun.

You may want to contact a professional LV or alarm installer - maybe you could work a deal and run wires together. Learn a lot, and save a lot.

 

[doogan123]

Thanks guys - I am some what under the gun - altho running the wires is not a big deal. I have all drilling compelted and the wire onsite. ( i have some experiance with this) My only concern is that i have never drilled through windows like this - and especially these windows ( MY own new house - new windows etc etc etc... :lol: )

I have one in my attic in the back of the house - I will do a test hole on that one i think... an see where it goes...

thanks again

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

What type of magnetic sensors do you plan on using? Your frame looks 'complex' on that side. Were you going to use a surface mount type sensor and just run the wiring through your drilled hole?

You may also want to check out my How-To.

 

[IVB]

Run the wires; that way you can decide later that wired is a better path and not be screwed cuz you didn't run any wires

 

[AnthonyZ]

Just don't bring up wireless at Worthington (if you're running HAI). I was "disciplined" last week for having the temerity to tell the truth about wireless sensors and specifically the dreadful reliability of HAI's wireless options. Needless to say, my posts were removed as I seemed to have touched a nerve. In other words, one, wired is MUCH better than wireless and two, Worthington is more interested in sales than integrity...

 

[doogan123]

What type of magnetic sensors do you plan on using? Your frame looks 'complex' on that side. Were you going to use a surface mount type sensor and just run the wiring through your drilled hole?

You may also want to check out my How-To.

Bravesirrobbin - Yes - while the frame does look complex - its a std andersen 400 series dbl hung - not a custom window or architectural series etc. I did actually take the advice of the previous poster and reached out to an alarm guy. He is meeting me today with some sensors and is coming on the job thursday night to show me the best way to drill. . I had already read through your how=to and it was most helpful. My only hang up now is the "complex frame!!

In terms of wireless - you guys pretty much feel as I do. Wireless has its place - but nothing beats wired - thanks for confirming this is true on the alarm scene also

Thanks for everyones quick responds - its much appreciated (can't wait until i start installing the alarm itself!!)

 

[Sandpiper]

Hi everyone - I am a noobie here, and have been looking through the posts to try to understand how to wire my windows. Let me give a quick history. I am building a new house. I have mostly andersen dbl hung 400 series windows. I am trying to find a place to run in the wire. I am a long way aways fron actually installing the alarm - however sheetrock is a week away!

I have attached a picture - of where i think is the right place to drill a little hole - maybe 1/4 inch or smaller. can anyone comment?

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/vm.../IMG_0595-1.jpg

Second option is to skip wiring the windows and use wireless - even tho i am a technical guy - i am skeptical of wireless. Is this a real option? are they reliable and effective?

Appreciate any help. I need to decide and run the wires in a couple of days!

thanks everyone

I agree, don't use wireless when you have the chance to wire it. Also, since your windows are wood, you may want to consider drilling the sill, and place a recessed contact there, with the magnet opposing it (drilled into the bottom window rail). This way the entire contact assembly is hidden and looks much nicer. The way you are planning, you will need a surface contact.

The only negative, is that I have had window manmufacturers tell me that drilling any part of a window will void either the entire window warranty, or at least for the part that is drilled. I have posed this delimma to customers and builders who say, "drill it". Warranty returns on windows are rare, and the look of the recessed contact is more important to them.

 

[programmergeek]

Besides if you have to return a window frame for warntee the little hole will be the leat of your issues pulling windows are not fun. I am a wood worker you can drill a hole and also put some ca glue (Crazy glue) in it, we use this all the time to strenghthin wood this will prevent any splitting or anything the CA glue and wood will be strongt than the wood around it, only if you are worried but probably unecessory.

I would totally wire I alwas do, and hiden sensors are the best, just make sure to leave a little slack in the wire in case you ever have to replace one or change the resistor. Also I have had people knock off the non hidden ones, never had a problem with a hidden one.

 

[doogan123]

Besides if you have to return a window frame for warntee the little hole will be the leat of your issues pulling windows are not fun. I am a wood worker you can drill a hole and also put some ca glue (Crazy glue) in it, we use this all the time to strenghthin wood this will prevent any splitting or anything the CA glue and wood will be strongt than the wood around it, only if you are worried but probably unecessory.

I would totally wire I alwas do, and hiden sensors are the best, just make sure to leave a little slack in the wire in case you ever have to replace one or change the resistor. Also I have had people knock off the non hidden ones, never had a problem with a hidden one.

Hi

the windows are not wood - just the trim and accents. The windows themselves are the andersen material. is drilling the bottom - under where the bottom window closes safe to do?

 

[Sandpiper]

....... is drilling the bottom - under where the bottom window closes safe to do?

You mean the sill.......and safe in what manner?

Other than the warranty issue brought up before, it is as safe as drilling any other part.

Are you worried about water intrusion? The design of the sill should be sloping so that water runs off and does not puddle there. A small amount of caulk or silicon sealant around the sensor before it is inserted will totally seal the hole. If you are worried about drilling the sash for the magnet, the supermagnet "ring" type can be used without having to drill. I have even glued these on before.

By the way, when windows were always made of wood, recessed contacts were universally used. Now you see mostly vinyl windows, and now you see mostly surface contacts......a step backwards.

 

[doogan123]

....... is drilling the bottom - under where the bottom window closes safe to do?

You mean the sill.......and safe in what manner?

Other than the warranty issue brought up before, it is as safe as drilling any other part.

Are you worried about water intrusion? The design of the sill should be sloping so that water runs off and does not puddle there. A small amount of caulk or silicon sealant around the sensor before it is inserted will totally seal the hole. If you are worried about drilling the sash for the magnet, the supermagnet "ring" type can be used without having to drill. I have even glued these on before.

By the way, when windows were always made of wood, recessed contacts were universally used. Now you see mostly vinyl windows, and now you see mostly surface contacts......a step backwards.

Hi there - so yes - i went to ADI today and spoke with a rep there. he assured me that drilling the bottom where window closes is fine. I took a closer look and i think that its where i will do it. I also saw the switch. its a 3/8 hole. I think this is the most asthetic approach. Thanks everyone. I will post photos once i do it...

 

[Sandpiper]

Hi there - so yes - i went to ADI today and spoke with a rep there. he assured me that drilling the bottom where window closes is fine. I took a closer look and i think that its where i will do it. I also saw the switch. its a 3/8 hole. I think this is the most asthetic approach. Thanks everyone. I will post photos once i do it...

Correct. There is also a 3/4" version. The 3/4" gives you a lot more room to put the beanies if you use the pigtail terminations. If you use terminal terminations, the 3/8" will be fine. However, when using the terminal terminations, after tighting the terminals, I always put a dab of silicon to seal out any moisture from the wired ends and terminals. I have seen these type corrode over time and cause false alarms.

 

[doogan123]

Hi there - so yes - i went to ADI today and spoke with a rep there. he assured me that drilling the bottom where window closes is fine. I took a closer look and i think that its where i will do it. I also saw the switch. its a 3/8 hole. I think this is the most asthetic approach. Thanks everyone. I will post photos once i do it...

Correct. There is also a 3/4" version. The 3/4" gives you a lot more room to put the beanies if you use the pigtail terminations. If you use terminal terminations, the 3/8" will be fine. However, when using the terminal terminations, after tighting the terminals, I always put a dab of silicon to seal out any moisture from the wired ends and terminals. I have seen these type corrode over time and cause false alarms.

Thanks Sandpiper - thats a good idea.. am a big fan of silicon...

I do have a question about boxes for keypads, glass break sensors, motions sensors etc ... What size box do in need to install. For keypad - I am putting on inside main door.. back door and master bedroom. Then the main one will be in basement next to panel - this i know can be surface mounted.. . for the others - Is a single gang box sufficiant - or should i do something different?

Same goes for glass break, motion etc. I am assuming that these are fine in a single gang

thanks