wireless PIR turning on UPB with no software
- Thread starter DeLicious
- Start date
AutomatedOutlet
Senior Member
We should have a beta unit next week.
Not really a secret, but it will be made by the same company that is currently the leader in whole house transceivers - WGL - please don't bombard them with questions about it yet! Let them finish the development first.
My understanding is that it will be able to send either.
DeLicious,
I;d have to look into that a little deeper. If that sensor can really send out contact closures, then yes, you can hook it up to an input/output module and do this. I'm just not sure that that is what that really puts out.
according to the manual for the Visonic wireless receiver, the outputs are N.C and N.O. relay contacts. however, this is probably not the most cost effective way to go.
Smarthome appears to have the 200 series; I don't know what the difference is between the 200 series and the 300 series.
200 series 4-channel receiver: $72.99 (Smarthome)
200 series 2-channel receiver: $54.99 (Smarthome)
200 series wireless PIR: $109.99 (Smarthome)
UPB UMI: $94.95 (AO)
EDIT: the 200 series is for North America, the 300 series is for Europe. hopefully, we can take some $7.99 X-10 Hawkeye PIR's from AO and use the new module from WGL that Martin alluded to for much less.
Smarthome appears to have the 200 series; I don't know what the difference is between the 200 series and the 300 series.
200 series 4-channel receiver: $72.99 (Smarthome)
200 series 2-channel receiver: $54.99 (Smarthome)
200 series wireless PIR: $109.99 (Smarthome)
UPB UMI: $94.95 (AO)
EDIT: the 200 series is for North America, the 300 series is for Europe. hopefully, we can take some $7.99 X-10 Hawkeye PIR's from AO and use the new module from WGL that Martin alluded to for much less.
Michael McSharry
Active Member
The reason you would want to use the RF-UPB is if you do not want to get the PC involved in the transaction such as using it with a security panel. If a PC is one of the pieces of your HA system then you are likely better off from both performance and $ to use the W800/PC to receive RF.
While I did not ask Warren, I suspect the RF-UPB system wil cost about twice that of the W800 since you will need both the product WGL produces as well as a dedicated PIM for it. From a performance viewpoint the UPB runs at under 10 Hz and is subject to unarbitrated collisions while the W800 is able to deliver data 100 times faster. Quite often minimizing data latency is important when trying to do something based upon detected motion. While UPB is faster than X10, it is still a slow communication mechanism as compared to other alternatives.
I'm very happy with UPB, but one still needs to use the technology that is appropriate for the problem. In my case my motion sensors are 600 ft away so the powerline becomes a good solution since it already is in place. It does mean that I need to accept the time it takes for the notification of motion to trickle down the line.
While I did not ask Warren, I suspect the RF-UPB system wil cost about twice that of the W800 since you will need both the product WGL produces as well as a dedicated PIM for it. From a performance viewpoint the UPB runs at under 10 Hz and is subject to unarbitrated collisions while the W800 is able to deliver data 100 times faster. Quite often minimizing data latency is important when trying to do something based upon detected motion. While UPB is faster than X10, it is still a slow communication mechanism as compared to other alternatives.
I'm very happy with UPB, but one still needs to use the technology that is appropriate for the problem. In my case my motion sensors are 600 ft away so the powerline becomes a good solution since it already is in place. It does mean that I need to accept the time it takes for the notification of motion to trickle down the line.
thanks for the analysis, Michael. it is true that at this point, I do not want to get the PC involved in the transaction. I was hoping to introduce that later.
Do you have knowledge of what the RF-UPB module will look like and how it will work? Are we sure that it will require a dedicated PIM? That would actually be okay by me, I guess, since I'll have a spare PIM lying around the house (what a luxury).
In my case, the whole house is under 150 ft across, and most of my PIR's will be downstairs anyways, so I can locate the RF receiver close to both the PIR's and the lights they will be controlling, so I don't guess there will be any noticeable additional latency than there already is with UPB.
That being said, if WGL is looking for beta testers, I would love to volunteer.
Do you have knowledge of what the RF-UPB module will look like and how it will work? Are we sure that it will require a dedicated PIM? That would actually be okay by me, I guess, since I'll have a spare PIM lying around the house (what a luxury).
In my case, the whole house is under 150 ft across, and most of my PIR's will be downstairs anyways, so I can locate the RF receiver close to both the PIR's and the lights they will be controlling, so I don't guess there will be any noticeable additional latency than there already is with UPB.
That being said, if WGL is looking for beta testers, I would love to volunteer.
Michael McSharry
Active Member
Yes it does require a PIM. Its placement will have no effect on the timing. Geneally RF receivers are placed high such in attic area to get the best coverage. For me the garage ceiling at 12 ft was better than the attic at 30 ft high. RF does have a mind of its own and does like to be stereotyped.
When your X10 motion sensor sends an RF "D1 ON" then the UPB572 will send a UPB link. A different link for "D1 OFF" or "B15 ON" etc. Your lights will be configured to accept that link as one of its input addresses and it will go ON/OFF respectively.
When your X10 motion sensor sends an RF "D1 ON" then the UPB572 will send a UPB link. A different link for "D1 OFF" or "B15 ON" etc. Your lights will be configured to accept that link as one of its input addresses and it will go ON/OFF respectively.
Did you ever manage to hook up the Foard Compact bridge? was it an X10/UPB bridge? in particular, was it this one?Event5 said:
I'm interested to see what your impressions of this were, as well as how well/easy you think the setup software works... I believe you are the only one on this board to have purchased one.
Yes, This is the bridge that I installed in a clients home. After a lot of discussion with the factory I was able to get it working. It works great! It receives x10 or UPB and you can assign multiple commands to any received code. The unit you referenced has more bells and wistles and wants to be a HA controller; therefore it is somewhat complicated to use. It has x10 and UPB logs so you can follow the signals of both x10 and UPB. You can keep it connected to a computer and to the x10 with a TW523 and a UPB PIM.
I have it receiving x10 from touch pads (that send a lighting scene to PCS Scenemaster x10 switches) and sending UPB signals as well as other x10 to devices that can not receive multiple codes. This is building macros from a single x10 signal. I also have it receiving UPB links from a SA Timer/Scheduler to operate existing X10 devices by timer, such as 220v pool pump switches.
Again the reason I went with the Foard is that it supports UPB Links where the other brand did not at the time.(I don't know if that is still true)
When I set it up I had the feeling from the factory that there were very few out in use and they were interrested in helping me get it working good. The spent many hours, yes hours, with me on the phone working out bugs. The tech and the owner of the company (Mr. Foard) worked with me to get it right.
When programming it the logic was a little hard to grasp. I thought (and told them) that it did not need to be so complicated. (For instance they used an engineering term that ment nothing to me but ment a simple process, sorry I do not remember what the word was, but at the time it was odd.
I would recommend it with a warning that it might require more than a little tech support from Foard. But they were very good to work with.
Dave
Michael McSharry
Active Member
It has been awhile since I played with the UPB572, but if my memory serves me correctly it can send direct as well as links.
For those looking for a no-software solution, the UMI/SPY-1 combination will send an UPB event message (link) on motion detection and this can be used by any other UPB device's receiver as a control. If, however, you want to get from the powerline into something intelligent then a UPB PIM will be needed with the PIM's serial connection going to some form of processor.
The same thing can be done with a UPB572/PIM/Hawkeye if you do not want to use wires for the motion sensor. A second PIM will again be needed if going to receive the UPB event message in some processor.
For those looking for a no-software solution, the UMI/SPY-1 combination will send an UPB event message (link) on motion detection and this can be used by any other UPB device's receiver as a control. If, however, you want to get from the powerline into something intelligent then a UPB PIM will be needed with the PIM's serial connection going to some form of processor.
The same thing can be done with a UPB572/PIM/Hawkeye if you do not want to use wires for the motion sensor. A second PIM will again be needed if going to receive the UPB event message in some processor.
yes, I have considered use of the UPB572, and it is a viable solution to the problem of doing this all without software, which was the intention of this thread in the first place. but the UPB572 does not receive X10 RF Security codes, which I would like to be able to do in the future with door/window sensors.
i'm kind of leaning towards using software after all... i was trying to avoid it earlier for whatever reason.
my software solution is starting to look like homeseer/upb PIM/w800rf32, as I am getting very frustrated with MisterHouse. my discussion of this is in my blog.
i'm kind of leaning towards using software after all... i was trying to avoid it earlier for whatever reason.
my software solution is starting to look like homeseer/upb PIM/w800rf32, as I am getting very frustrated with MisterHouse. my discussion of this is in my blog.
while i'm thinking about it, the other software-free solution should be to use the Foard X10/UPB bridge. you could use either a standard x10 RF transceiver or a security transceiver to receive the wireless signals and send out the appropriate codes over the powerline, which would be received by the bridge and translated to UPB which would also go out over the powerline.
this sounds like it might have more than the standard UPB delay, though... anyone let me know if this setup wouldn't work at all.
this sounds like it might have more than the standard UPB delay, though... anyone let me know if this setup wouldn't work at all.
To continue with the discription I posted above with the Foard x10 to UPB Bridge, This house has has an x10 4 button controller centrally located that can send out 4 ON commands and 4 OFF commands. All of the x10 switches (PCS Scenemaster) in the home can receive up to 16 x10 commands and go to any level including off for any received command.
Now with the Foard bridge, I press the top button and send for example G-5. All the x10 lights go to their party mode setting in less than a second, Then (through the Foard) about a second later the UPB loads go to their party mode settings, then, other x10 devices such as a fountain, a waterfall, and the Spa pump come on, one at a time as they each need their own x10 code. The Foard bridge allows me to create macros thus.
Most of the delay is the x10 protocol; the bridge works very fast once it receives the G-5
You would have to add in the delay in the RF transciever to the above process.
Dave
Now with the Foard bridge, I press the top button and send for example G-5. All the x10 lights go to their party mode setting in less than a second, Then (through the Foard) about a second later the UPB loads go to their party mode settings, then, other x10 devices such as a fountain, a waterfall, and the Spa pump come on, one at a time as they each need their own x10 code. The Foard bridge allows me to create macros thus.
Most of the delay is the x10 protocol; the bridge works very fast once it receives the G-5
You would have to add in the delay in the RF transciever to the above process.
Dave
