Wires - Which One & How Much??!

[kimvi]

Hello to everyone. I am new to this and have been reading non-stop for about a week. I am a MCSE and CCNA with extensive knowledge in netorking. I am building a 5000+ sq/ft house in the St. Croix, US Virgin Islands. My question is about wiring. What cables should I use and how much? How much of each cable will I need in each room to be home runs and which ones don't have to be?

My home will have 4 foum main A/V Zones:

Zone 1: Living Room - 50"-60" LCD/Plasma, 7.1 Surround Sound, Touch Panel
Zone 2: Entertainment Room - Projector, 7.1 Surround Sound, Touch Panel
Zone 3: Master Bedroom - 32"-42" LCD/Plasma, 5.1 Surround Sound, Touch Panel
Zone 4: Bedroom 1 - 32"-42" LCD/Plasma, Pair of Speakers, Touch Panel

Each Room will have its own Cable Box, DVD Player and AMP (where necessary).

1. Would like audio in Zones 1 & 2 to be piped to 4 "sub-zones." i.e. Zone 1 (Living Room) will control source of audio for sitting area, balcony, kitchen and front yard.

2. Will mount several cameras around the property and would to be able to view from any TV ....maybe even touchscreen/panel.

3. I would like to install several touchscreens: 3 bedrooms, Office, Living Room & Enterainment Room. Which system will allow me to control the security system via these touchscreens rather than having to install touch panels?

4. Don't see a need for it now, but would like to be able to see video showing in Zone 1 and Zone 2 from any other room?

5. What must I do to be able to switch input for in room speakers between tv and whole house audio.

The system will also control:

- Lighting
- Whole House Audio
- HVAC
- Irrigation
- Security System
- Surveillance Cameras

Provide feedback/comments on the wiring (homes runs & in room) and systems: home automation, whole house video, whole house audio, lighting,

No decisions have been made, but so far I am leaning in this direction:

HA - Cortexa -- Reading about CQC & Mainlobby
Video - ?????
Audio - NuVo
Lighting - Insteon

Based on the responses to the wiring I will create diagrams and post for review.

Thanks in advance. Free room in St. Criox to all that participate.

 

[jlehnert]

EEK! :blink: Lot's of questions. Let's start from the top.

First, welcome to the board. It's a great place, as long as you can put up with the bad puns and cutesy cat pictures. Be careful of what you offer though. This group has been known to travel 2000 miles for a "free" beer.

If you haven't already, pull down a copy of Wiring Your House 101. It should give you a start on some of your questions.

Now for the CYA(s).
1) Much of the wiring will depend on the technologies/manufacturers you choose.

Gotta go for a minute. Will be back to finish

 

[jlehnert]

Dang. I forgot CYA #2 during the interruption.

Is there a specific reason you are going with Nuvo? Russound is the popular choice amoung both pro integrators and DIY, mainly because it is very flexible and expandable. It's also very easy to integrate with HA applications/hardware.

via these touchscreens rather than having to install touch panels

Huh? To me they are the same, so I need an example of what you consider the difference. Do you mean wall mounted for touch screens, vs portable for touchpads?

1. Would like audio in Zones.......

Very easy to do if you are running independent systems for zone #1 and zone #2. More difficult if you are running a whole house system, but not rocket science. Most of the better systems have the capability of slaving zones together, ie zone 2 duplicates what zone 1 is doing, etc. Would the "subzones" ALWAYS be doing the same thing as the primary, or would there be times when each subzone is doing it's own thing?

2. Will mount several cameras

Cameras are a bit of a PITA at the moment. Most cable TV systems do not have blank channels where you can modulate camera signals like we used to do in the past. One way of getting around this is to run two video distribution systems, one for cable (or satellite), and a second for distribution of "in house" (literally) productions, ie cameras, DVDs, etc. I'm sure the TVs you've listed accept multiple inputs, so you could do this. IP cameras are excellent, and get around the empty channel problem, until you need to watch them on a TV. Getting analog/digital TV signals onto the IP network and visa versa can be very fun. Just like doing taxes.

showing in Zone 1 and Zone 2

Comments above still apply. You can do this by modulating DVD #1 onto channel X, DVD #2 onto channel Y, etc. If you need a better quality picture, some of the whole house systems will also swtich composite video. IF you want the best quality, ie moving RGB, SVGA, HDMI or whatever, I'll have to defer to someone else.

Lighting, Whole House Audio, HVAC, Irrigation, Security System, Surveillance Cameras

This brings us to the PC vs Mac argument of HA. Do you want multiple individual systems that can function independently, integrated by some type of hardware/software. Or do you want one big system that controls everything? The first does not have a single point of failure, so it is more robust, ie the security system still runs if the whole house audio dies. However, because you are trying to integrate multiple different systems, the integration can be a PITA. The latter has the problem that if the main system dies, everything is DOA, but the flip side is that it is easier to integrate. Dig around, and you can find 50-60 post threads debating this question.

 

[kimvi]

Is there a specific reason you are going with Nuvo?

I came across them while reading up on Cortexa. Have not seen any negative reviews. Good price points. Which Russound system should I look into? Are the price points similar?

Do you mean wall mounted for touch screens, vs portable for touchpads?

I mean in-wall touch screen in each room. My question is integrating the security feature into the touch screen so that I would not have to have an additional keypad just for the security system.

Very easy to do if you are running independent systems for zone #1 and zone #2. More difficult if you are running a whole house system, but not rocket science.

The important thing for me is being able to get 7.1 in Zones 1 & 2 and 5.1 in Zone-3. I assume I would have to use an amp to accomplish this. The question then becomes: how do I tie the whole house audio into the amp, so I can easily between music and the TV. I am guessing that would all depend on the amp I choose being able to accept the input for whole house audio via an auxillary jack. Another key point is the remote being able to control both the AMP and whole house audio.

Would the "subzones" ALWAYS be doing the same thing as the primary, or would there be times when each subzone is doing it's own thing?

The subzones would always be listening to the same thing as the primary. The only available controls are power and volume.

One way of getting around this is to run two video distribution systems, one for cable (or satellite), and a second for distribution of "in house" (literally) productions, ie cameras, DVDs, etc.

So if I got this correct for each room would have 2 video input cables (RG6) and for the rooms that were sharing their video they would have a third coax going back to the media closet. Would u use these cable choies? If not which ones would you use?

Do you want multiple individual systems that can function independently, integrated by some type of hardware/software. Or do you want one big system that controls everything?

Right now I am leaning in the direction of multiple sub-systems all being controlled by one HA system. Don't usually like one-stop-shoppping there is always a gotcha!!! I like having more options.

Thank you for all your help. You have really help me to narrow get my mind in the right direction. I just need to figure the right cable choices for A/V: Cat-5, RG6 or some thing else. I am looking for an option that will give me 10-15 good years of high quality audio and video. I am now learning about sending video on Cat-5, but haven't heard about the quality versus RG6. I 3/4" conduit to two locations in each room. My plan was to use bundled cable, 2 RG6 & 2 Cat-5e to each AV locations in each room. Then I have additional 1/2" conduits for touch screen and on to speaker locations. I can very easily add another one or two cat-5e or rg6 cables to the 3/4" conduit. Just need to know which one to add. If I even end up using either.

 

[jlehnert]

Russound - I haven't priced things recently, so I can't comment on the price points. Look at the RNET systems, CAM6.6 and the CAV6.6.

Touchscreens - OK. That's doable. As long as whatever software that's driving the touchscreens has integration with your security system, you should be ok. Plan on having at least one security keypad in the house, both for programming, and in case the touchscreen system goes down.

depend on the amp I choose being able to accept the input for whole house audio via an auxillary jack.

Correct.

remote being able to control both the AMP and whole house audio.

Expand on this a little. "Remote" being a handheld remote, or "remote" being some type of portable control, i.e. touchscreen.

Subzones - OK, that makes it much easier. Control of the subzones is the part that gets things complicated.

Video distribution - Yes. At LEAST 2 RG6 quad shield coming into the drop, and one going back to node 0 (HA room/patch panel/video ditribution hub).

Good on the conduit. Go with the 3/4 if possible. Conduit is like hard drives and closets....it fills to accomadate any available space.

I'm a little confused about feeding the 7.1 and 5.1. Are you saying you want to feed 7.1 and 5.1 to the subzones? Or are you saying the main zones (where the displays are) will be 7.1/5.1, and the subzones are simple stereo echos of the main zone?

 

[kimvi]

Expand on this a little. "Remote" being a handheld remote, or "remote" being some type of portable control, i.e. touchscreen.

The "hand held" remote control in the the room with the touch screen.

Are you saying you want to feed 7.1 and 5.1 to the subzones? Or are you saying the main zones (where the displays are) will be 7.1/5.1, and the subzones are simple stereo echos of the main zone?

In the main zones where the displays are will be 7.1 & 5.1 via the AMPs.

 

[DavidL]

Kimvi,
Yes, replacing the "single purpose" on wall keypads with a "multi purpose" touchscreen makes a lot of sense if you intend to do a lot of integration of various subsystems like Russound / Nuvo / Etc.

This is what MainLobby is all about. Integration of those subsystems into a common user interface and navigation that is perfect for touchscreens.

Since MainLobby supports both Russound and Nuvo, (and a few others), you are free to compare the hardware products based on zones/ amplification power and quality / and price.

Here are some diagrams that demonstrate a few ways to wire and implement these solutions:

www.cinemaronline.com/images/MLArchitecture.pdf

Once you have a high level architecture established (like in the level of detail that these diagrams represent), then you can go into design of the actual wiring subsystem needs.

I might suggest that for the "Theater room" areas that you consider a UMPC device instead of an on wall touchpanel as our dealers find that more useful for that purpose. In walls are great for heavy traffic areas like a Foyer or Kitchen. Smaller in walls are good for public hallway use. Of course, any networked PC can also control the MainLobby system.

Re: wiring: if you want full motion video to the touchscreens, then you should plan on hard wiring the touchscreen to a central PC video output. I would not use a UTMA technology or even a "PanelPC" unit for this chore. Since you are hard wiring now, wire for 2 dedicated Cat5e or Cat6 plus 18/2 power (12 volt typically) to the touchscreen locations. Then, you can use any of the above technology choices, dependent on how you do final connection in the server and equipment closet.

I think you will find that the Cortexa system is nice because it's a dedicated processor and more turn key. Systems like MainLobby and CQC are much more expandable and personalizable. With your credentials, I don't think you will have much issue with custom configuring either a MainLobby or CQC system. If you know how to "lock down" a PC Server from virus, kids installing games, etc., then the PC system can be (is) just as reliable as a dedicated processor system. If you treat it as a controller and not as a generic PC, then it is a controller.