wiring GRI 2800 on Elk panel

[newalarm]

I am looking to get water sensors for leak/flood detection. I purchased a Winland electronics WB200 but it does not tell you what zone is going off, plus each additional sensor is $20. i looked at the WB800 but again, the unit itself will tell you what zone tripped, but it will send a general trouble signal to the ELK panel (if you are away, no way of knowing where the problem lies). Ideally, i could get an alarm condition from an exact zone (ie: furnace room, or laundry room) so that we can not waste time looking for the leak.

So I was looking at the GRI 2800 since i could put them on single zone. How would i wire that on Elk M1g on 2 wires? Do i need to go with the 4 wire GRI 2600?

Thank in advance.

 

[jpmargis]

No personal experience, but the GRI 2800 product spec says 5 VDC @ <10 uA, so it should work as a normally open zone on the M1G. Be sure to get the polarity correct.

View attachment 4326​

 

[apostolakisl]

I have about 20 of them scattered around the house. I clustered them into about 5 zones on the Elk. They are wired in parrallel, NOT series. They are indeed normally open circuits (which is why they are run in parrallel) which short when wet. No EOL resistors are used.

They do work. I have set them off on accident on a number of occasions. I also have the water shut off valve so when they trip it shuts the water off.

 

[newalarm]

Ok, I got clarification from GRI. They are really friendly and helpful.

2600 4 wire. 2 separate wires are used for power, 2 wires for signal. Designe for new panels that use less power. In alarm mode, it uses 12mA (very little power).

2800 2 wire. 2 wires only are used for power and signal. But you need at least 5 volts on the zone, provided for by panel. This was designed for older panels that had more power. Has a bilt in capaciter due to design, so in alarm mode, it uses up to 400mA (a lot of power).

Both will work on Elk, but the 2600 is a better choice due to reduced power consumption.

Thanks all.

 

[apostolakisl]

I'm not sure that is exactly right. The 2800 does not "use" 400ma in alarm mode. It can handle 400ma, but it is just a short when in alarm and lets flow whatever the panel is putting to it. Elk zones will put about 7ma into a shorted zone.

You can't just hook a 2800 up to an uregulated voltage source or it will get damaged if an unlimited (relatively speaking) source of amps is available when it gets wet and shorts. Notice the specs say alrarm current 400ma "max".

And when it is not in alarm mode it only uses 10 micro amps, an amount too small to affect an elk's zone voltage reading.

The advantage to the 4 wire device is that you have more options for supervising the integrity of the device and its wires.

 

[newalarm]

I may be wrong. It would be worth calling them again.

 

[apostolakisl]

The deal is:

2600: Alarms if it gets wet, if any one of its wires is broken, or it otherwise is broken
2800: Alarms only if it gets wet AND the wires/device is not broken

With the 2600 you have more peace of mind knowing that any failure in the system will alarm. The 2800 could be non-functional and you wouldn't know it without testing it.

The power specifications really have nothing to do with the choice as either one is very compatible with Elk.

 

[video321]

I have a couple 2600's and plan to add more. After I installed them I realized there were the 2800's that would also work with my Elk. However, since it was a new install and wire is cheap I figured it was probably a good idea to install the 4-wire detectors anyway so If I ever needed to replace them with (or add) something else I have power there.

My 2600's are NC - which I thought was a little odd for a liquid sensor but what do I know :huh:

 

[apostolakisl]

I have a couple 2600's and plan to add more. After I installed them I realized there were the 2800's that would also work with my Elk. However, since it was a new install and wire is cheap I figured it was probably a good idea to install the 4-wire detectors anyway so If I ever needed to replace them with (or add) something else I have power there.

My 2600's are NC - which I thought was a little odd for a liquid sensor but what do I know :huh:

They are NC because they have a relay in them. That's why they need power to hold the relay closed. When the water "shorts" them out, the relay releases and the alarm circuit opens. That's also why a break in the power lead will trigger an alarm.

 

[video321]

Makes sense. Thanks, Lou.

 

[cctv]

Seems like the GRI 2600 is the way to go then. Its good that its a fail safe design, so if there is a broken power wire it will alarm.

Has anyone here used them in pools as a way to turn on a pump when the water level gets too high?

 

[newalarm]

I called GRI again.

the 2800 uses little to no power when not in alarm. In alarm, it should not use much more than the zone power. The engineer said you could put a bunch of these together and it should be similar to magnetic contacts. He warned about using EOLs as it could create a voltage drop to below what the device needs to operate correctly. He recommended putting the relay on a damp paper towel for 15 seconds and watching the panel. It should maintain the alarm. If the 2800 goes back to a normal state even though its contacts are wet or shorted, then you need to look at another device (2600 or other).

Alternatively, the 2800 can be installed with a relay so that power is drawn from an alternate source than the zone itself (they have diagram with instructions). But Relay panel can not exceed the 400ma max of the 2800.

Again, 2800 was designed for older panels with plenty of power, but they recommend using the 2600 with newer panels.

They said it was best to not test the 2600/2800 by dunking it into a glass due to water getting into the sensor (they thought it may be good idea to add dab of silicone). It will not hurt the sensor, if water get in. you would just need to shake it out or wait an hour or so and it will work properly. Put it on damp paper towel, or put water on fingers and put it across both metal senors to short it.