Wiring my house for Network! Yet another thread!

Isnt something like this better? I like the fact that the punchdown block is on the front. This way you dont have to remove from cabinet to add a new ethernet line.

http://www.ebay.com/...9-/180966428670

Or Like this:

http://www.amazon.co...b/dp/B000EHW88Q

Personally, I don't like them. That's what I meant by "i want twist and mount" by leviton except that it very expensive. You punch all the cables in the back and then turn that thing and mount it.

Why would I want to see all the wires, isn't the goal of SME to hide all the cables, be it even "inside" the enclosure.
 
I personally would want to see the wires in the front for easy access to add new lines in future or replace existing ones.

Yes the twist and mount might save a little space in the panel and look neater but when you have a problem or need to add a new network line I think it will be a a headache...


Personally, I don't like them. That's what I meant by "i want twist and mount" by leviton except that it very expensive. You punch all the cables in the back and then turn that thing and mount it.

Why would I want to see all the wires, isn't the goal of SME to hide all the cables, be it even "inside" the enclosure.
 
Sorry, didn't mean to sound that I ignored what you said. The idea of horizontally mounting a smaller vertical panel came from one of the links you posted when I looked at the length of that panel.
Does it really matter how much clearance I have in the front, as long as I can put patch cables and close the door, I don't think I really care.
Am I missing something here?
Just messin' with ya... As long as you have room to close the door without binding the cables it doesn't matter much. If it is tight, that might be your selling point to get the protruded Plexi cover!
Then punchdown it is. I have my cart ready at monoprice, I will just add the punchdowns and place the order. I am not sure what you mean by "quality" punchdown tool. I got the one from monoprice itself, is that good enough, I dont mind buying another better one, if you think its worth it.

Most of the wiring tools I have are newly acquired (new homeowner, first project). The crimper I have is I think Klien, punchdown is monoprice and Fluke tester is TOO rich for my blood, I got a tester from monoprice and I am guessing it should do the job.
I haven't used their so I can't speak for them - I guess you'll find out! My punchdown tools were $50-$80, but things have also come down. That tester, at least by the description, sounds way better than what most homeowners would have - I like that it can actually tell you the distance to the break! It should do the trick for anything you're doing.

I personally would want to see the wires in the front for easy access to add new lines in future or replace existing ones.

Yes the twist and mount might save a little space in the panel and look neater but when you have a problem or need to add a new network line I think it will be a a headache...
I'm with activemind on that one - I absolutely would not want the wires in the front... how often are you changing things once they're installed? I think having them exposed looks horrible and makes you more likely to snag something and cause a failure. That Leviton twist & mount looks like the way to go if only it were more affordable. But, to each his own.
 
So everything is on order now and should start trickling in by tomorrow :ph34r:

The last question (at least I would like to think its the last) is that what should I do with all the wires in the crawl space? I have a T59 Stapler, is that going to be good enough. I dont want to leave the cables on the ground like the way they are right now. All over the place.

On the other hand, I am thinking of some kind of hooks that I can connect to the floor and tack in all the wires. I remember seeing something like that but I searched right now and could not find it. Something that would be open so that adding or removing wires from the hooks is easy and they stay up closer to the floor of the house rather than laying on the ground in crawl space. Something like a "J".

Any other ideas ?
 
Something like thisand thisbut larger ... maybe something that can be hammered in rather than screwed in.

No and no.

There's things you shouldn't cheap out on when running category cabling, as well as stuff you're just not going to find at the big box stores.

You can use romex staples, provided you do not miss and hit the cabling or drive them too tight. The grey service entry cable ones work quite well. A T59 will work, however I think you'll find that it does not secure the cabling secure enough and the cable will slide right through the insulators. I use a (gasp!) T-25 sized gun made by Acme that is specific for a C5E cable, but you do need to use 9/16" staples. I think it's like a T-25AC or similar PN, different than a normal T-25 gun.

You can use something like what Arlington makes (and a few others) like J hooks or "the loop" depending on the amount of wiring involved. Drive rings or Bridle rings, while they do get used within the trade, they are really frowned upon when running any large mass of cables.

When running network cabling, the key is to have a large bearing point when using mounting hardware, otherwise over time, the weight of the cables above the ones on the bottom tends to crush or guillotine the cables on the bottom, causing all sorts of other issues.

That tester is a cheapie version of an Ideal VDV with a TDM built in. I doubt the TDM would be of any worth/quality/accuracy, and honestly, the other features are commonplace on most pinout testers. I bought a nice 3M unit in a case with 8 remotes for less than half of that cost, so buyer beware...Monoprice isn't that great for everything, especially since the big box stores have started carrying more of the HO grade communications tools, in addition to what I usually use.
 
I agree that adequate cable support is important; but in a modest home situation I don't think you need to stress too much about bearing points. For smaller bundles, I've used these a few times - available at HD; Intended for Romex but not bad for holding a handful of RG6/Cat6 wires attached to a floor joist or a rafter. I've seen much worse - from cable ties with the screw to zip-ties around a rafter to even a few rounds of electrical tape around. Not what I'd choose, but for 2-3 cables it won't hurt anything. I also have a stapler that's friendly to cables but it's so rare that I run a single cable anywhere that when I do, I just use hammer-in or screw-in cable hooks.

Testers: I have the Ideal VDV but I can't even remember the last time I used it; I bought it while on an out-of-state super simple wiring job and didn't have my Fluke... but I don't recall it having TDM (or much else about it for that matter). I googled for a 3M unit as described and found one but they're discontinued - so I have no idea what quality was like. Regardless, my point stands - The Monoprice one would do its job. Reviews state that it does OK but appears to be a cheap chinese product. HD sells one for comparable price with no TDM but a few remotes. In all reality, the best you're going to get at this price range is continuity testing - not full blown certification. I actually might be inclined to go with the HD one for the remotes just to help trace which jack is which - but that's less of an issue with some experience. I've been using the good fluke testers for a while and to be honest, I'm glad I don't have to choose between cheap ones. I've had a couple experiences where all the testing in the world with cheap testers said wiring was correct, but other issues were present that could only be detected with a certification tester - things that would be impossible to diagnose without the right certification tester. That said, this has only come up in commercial installs for me.

This actually brings me to another point in running cables... this may be common sense; may not - so I'm going to cover it. I've seen too many people pull a crapload of cable without any good markings then have to sort it out later with fox/hound to line the wires up or I've even seen people just terminate them all then identify them after and have a real kludge (two category cables in a single box in the den could be ports 9 and 14).

To make your life easier, start with a floorplan - mark where you want all the jacks on the floorplan. Then in a pattern that makes sense, number them around the home (on the floorplan) in a way that sequentially makes sense. Now, as you go to pull your wire, I start at the termination end (not the closet where it all comes together) and where reasonable, I start from the longest run and work to the shortest to help situations where you run out of cable on a long run. Start out with a sharpie and write the jack number on each cable, then wrap the ends with electrical tape (and pull string if needed). If you have trouble keeping track, also write the number on the box/spool of that run so when the run is done, you know what number to write on the other end before you cut it. After, cross out that number on the box/spool and keep going. When you do the termination, you'll cut the wires to even lengths, but you can re-write or label the wires before you cut them to size. This will help make a more meaningful numbering scheme and make termination go much faster.

DEL or others may have more to add or have a different way they like - but having *some* plan is better than haphazardly pulling a bunch of wires and having to sort out the mess after.
 
No and no.

There's things you shouldn't cheap out on when running category cabling, as well as stuff you're just not going to find at the big box stores.

You can use romex staples, provided you do not miss and hit the cabling or drive them too tight. The grey service entry cable ones work quite well. A T59 will work, however I think you'll find that it does not secure the cabling secure enough and the cable will slide right through the insulators. I use a (gasp!) T-25 sized gun made by Acme that is specific for a C5E cable, but you do need to use 9/16" staples. I think it's like a T-25AC or similar PN, different than a normal T-25 gun.

You can use something like what Arlington makes (and a few others) like J hooks or "the loop" depending on the amount of wiring involved. Drive rings or Bridle rings, while they do get used within the trade, they are really frowned upon when running any large mass of cables.

When running network cabling, the key is to have a large bearing point when using mounting hardware, otherwise over time, the weight of the cables above the ones on the bottom tends to crush or guillotine the cables on the bottom, causing all sorts of other issues.

That tester is a cheapie version of an Ideal VDV with a TDM built in. I doubt the TDM would be of any worth/quality/accuracy, and honestly, the other features are commonplace on most pinout testers. I bought a nice 3M unit in a case with 8 remotes for less than half of that cost, so buyer beware...Monoprice isn't that great for everything, especially since the big box stores have started carrying more of the HO grade communications tools, in addition to what I usually use.

Please don't take this the wrong way and I don't mean to be disrespectful, I value suggestions from you guys but am too focused on getting MY work done, esp this being my first project.

Having said that, I don't really care what or how you do your installation.

I will be a selfish ass and just focus on solving MY problem.

So can I or can I not use a T59 stapler ? Please Keep in mind that this is for my home installation!

Can you please post a link to what kind of "J" hooks would be better. You just said no. I am sorry, but that's not really helpful.

You guys know more than me about these things. So when you say no, please suggest something that's better than what I dug up (preferable with an explanation, but I know everybody is busy, and posting on this forum is just a hobby).

Okay, so the tester from monoprice is not top of the line and doesn't have all the features. I know that because top of the line (Fluke) cost too much. I cannot justify the cost because its too much for a hobby/project. Based on W2Ps response, I thought it would be sufficient for my needs. I really don't want to buy another tester.

Can you please post a link to that 3M tester you are talking about. I somehow missed it and just went with monoprice one as I have good luck in the past with their stuff.
 
I agree that adequate cable support is important; but in a modest home situation I don't think you need to stress too much about bearing points. For smaller bundles, I've used these a few times - available at HD; Intended for Romex but not bad for holding a handful of RG6/Cat6 wires attached to a floor joist or a rafter. I've seen much worse - from cable ties with the screw to zip-ties around a rafter to even a few rounds of electrical tape around. Not what I'd choose, but for 2-3 cables it won't hurt anything. I also have a stapler that's friendly to cables but it's so rare that I run a single cable anywhere that when I do, I just use hammer-in or screw-in cable hooks.

Testers: I have the Ideal VDV but I can't even remember the last time I used it; I bought it while on an out-of-state super simple wiring job and didn't have my Fluke... but I don't recall it having TDM (or much else about it for that matter). I googled for a 3M unit as described and found one but they're discontinued - so I have no idea what quality was like. Regardless, my point stands - The Monoprice one would do its job. Reviews state that it does OK but appears to be a cheap chinese product. HD sells one for comparable price with no TDM but a few remotes. In all reality, the best you're going to get at this price range is continuity testing - not full blown certification. I actually might be inclined to go with the HD one for the remotes just to help trace which jack is which - but that's less of an issue with some experience. I've been using the good fluke testers for a while and to be honest, I'm glad I don't have to choose between cheap ones. I've had a couple experiences where all the testing in the world with cheap testers said wiring was correct, but other issues were present that could only be detected with a certification tester - things that would be impossible to diagnose without the right certification tester. That said, this has only come up in commercial installs for me.

This actually brings me to another point in running cables... this may be common sense; may not - so I'm going to cover it. I've seen too many people pull a crapload of cable without any good markings then have to sort it out later with fox/hound to line the wires up or I've even seen people just terminate them all then identify them after and have a real kludge (two category cables in a single box in the den could be ports 9 and 14).

To make your life easier, start with a floorplan - mark where you want all the jacks on the floorplan. Then in a pattern that makes sense, number them around the home (on the floorplan) in a way that sequentially makes sense. Now, as you go to pull your wire, I start at the termination end (not the closet where it all comes together) and where reasonable, I start from the longest run and work to the shortest to help situations where you run out of cable on a long run. Start out with a sharpie and write the jack number on each cable, then wrap the ends with electrical tape (and pull string if needed). If you have trouble keeping track, also write the number on the box/spool of that run so when the run is done, you know what number to write on the other end before you cut it. After, cross out that number on the box/spool and keep going. When you do the termination, you'll cut the wires to even lengths, but you can re-write or label the wires before you cut them to size. This will help make a more meaningful numbering scheme and make termination go much faster.

DEL or others may have more to add or have a different way they like - but having *some* plan is better than haphazardly pulling a bunch of wires and having to sort out the mess after.

I think I will have to make a trip to HD and would not be able to find the hooks online. It would be really helpful if you can dig up the ones you have used in the past, I can just go and look for those in HD.

Monoprice tester that I bought does have a small loopback box that can be connected at the other end. I am not sure if they mentioned it in the description but I can post some pics when I get home in the evening. It can do both cat and RJ loopback test. I played a little with it and feel that at the very least it should be able to tell me which cable is which and an approx idea of where the break is if the cable is not working. I cant say how well that works but these capabilities should be enough for me.

I hear ya W2P about the floor plan. I am yet to find a good sw tool to help me draw the floorplan easily. Visio is too much work and I don't think I have the time right now. I am going to just do my office, family room and garage for now. And then just stop. Connect everything and see how its doing. I will wire the kitchen, living room and dining room in the next phase. Hopefully I will have something resembling the floorplan by then.
 
I use either large insulated electrical staples, loosly hammered in or screwed in velcro straps. That way you can pull the cable through and it won't scrape the insulation off. I find it is easier to add the staples/straps then pull my wire through. I gave up on using staplers a long time ago....
 
I use either large insulated electrical staples, loosly hammered in or screwed in velcro straps. That way you can pull the cable through and it won't scrape the insulation off. I find it is easier to add the staples/straps then pull my wire through. I gave up on using staplers a long time ago....

How does this velcro look. Its 15" long and 1/2" wide and if screwed in properly, should be able to take the weight of a couple of cables.
 
I had linked one of the versions in my post above - the link was to amazon but I bought those at Home Depot (I have a bag sitting here in my office). Here is another style if you can find it local. Basically walk around home depot and figure out what works for you. You're not going to be running 50ft vertical runs or stacking 100 cables so whatever you come up with should be just fine. Lets keep in mind the scope.

For the floorplan, pen/paper works just fine - you're not building the house off it - just need a reference point.

For the tester, I wouldn't worry about it especially if you already bought the monoprice one. It'll tell you if you have a cut wire or if you crossed a wire during termination - those are the bigger worries for a newbie in a small residential installation. The bigger stuff we have to certify for comes up so rarely it's not worth worrying about one bit in your situation. Just don't run in parallel to A/C lines much or string your wires over ballasts and you'll be fine.
 
I prefer "velcro hangin straps", the ones with a rivit to screw through so pulling on it doesn't tear out. These are the ones I used, but you can get them in lots of places at various sizes... I really like these, need to order some more of them!

http://www.blackbox....ck-Black/FT9420

FT9420_PC.jpg
 
Please don't take this the wrong way and I don't mean to be disrespectful, I value suggestions from you guys but am too focused on getting MY work done, esp this being my first project.

Having said that, I don't really care what or how you do your installation.

I will be a selfish ass and just focus on solving MY problem.

So can I or can I not use a T59 stapler ? Please Keep in mind that this is for my home installation!

Can you please post a link to what kind of "J" hooks would be better. You just said no. I am sorry, but that's not really helpful.

Best of luck, I'm bowing out of the thread.

I provided the actual reason to NOT use the items you linked and provided 4-5 valid solutions, products, and a couple of manufacturers that are available multiple places. I pointed out the caveats of using the tacker you own. Details are all there, so I can only say re-read.

The point of running the cabling is to maintain the cable's integrity, not just secure it to the lumber. While you may not see the point on 10-30 cables, over time when they start failing or performance stinks, you'll find out.

I mentioned in another post, in my area, the AHJ's and fire marshals don't like the strap/ty-rap method or anything plastic unless it's fire rated, as their view and standpoint is the cabling needs to be supported in a fire as to not fall or pose a hazard to rescue personnel. The building officials concurred and their statement was that ty-raps and velcro are for dressing cabling in enclosures and racks, not horizontal support.
 
DEL, I don't doubt your story, and I don't doubt your experiences are far beyond mine since you do this for a living, but that fire marshall's logic is not sound. Just because one fire marshal on one job says something doesn't mean it applies to everyone everywhere for every case of using velcro straps. I could've just as easily not hung my cabling in my attic with velcro and ran it across the "floor" like all the electrical. In his case what would the firemen be worried about tripping over in a crawl space?

That being said, to DEL's point, if you are worried about inspections, then you should ask the inspector. If you are planning on the job being inspected at all.
 
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