Wiring these windows

[beelzerob]

Oh, thanks for the info btw

Hehe...well, it's info. Whether it's useful to anyone....

In my numbers up above, the "tiny" magnet is the one I ordered from kjmagnetics. The "rare earth" one is the donut magnet (with the hole for a screw) that came from tselectronics.com.

If you're installing in such a way that the magnet and sensor will almost touch...then those tiny magnets are great! You can either surface glue it, or drill a very shallow hole and make it flush mount. But in cases where there might be a gap between the sensor and the magnet, those tiny ones don't reach very far. In those instances, that little donut magnet reaches as far as the regular 3/4" deep magnet, but will require barely much deeper of a hole to reside in as the tiny magnets.

From what I can tell so far, my sensors for the bottom sash will require a small gap between magnet and sensor. Since that gap is more than 1/8", that means the tiny magnets won't work for me. But those donut magnets can reach plenty far with their magnetic pull.

 

[SnyperBob]

Oh, thanks for the info btw

Hehe...well, it's info. Whether it's useful to anyone....

In my numbers up above, the "tiny" magnet is the one I ordered from kjmagnetics. The "rare earth" one is the donut magnet (with the hole for a screw) that came from tselectronics.com.

If you're installing in such a way that the magnet and sensor will almost touch...then those tiny magnets are great! You can either surface glue it, or drill a very shallow hole and make it flush mount. But in cases where there might be a gap between the sensor and the magnet, those tiny ones don't reach very far. In those instances, that little donut magnet reaches as far as the regular 3/4" deep magnet, but will require barely much deeper of a hole to reside in as the tiny magnets.

From what I can tell so far, my sensors for the bottom sash will require a small gap between magnet and sensor. Since that gap is more than 1/8", that means the tiny magnets won't work for me. But those donut magnets can reach plenty far with their magnetic pull.

ok, thanks for clarifying. I'm glad I asked before ordering those small ones. I'll just stick with the larger donut rare earth ones that I already have. My windows have the gap, I don't want to run into issues with the smaller magnets

 

[SnyperBob]

Anyway, are three methods overkill for every room with a window? ie....Wired for window sensors, wired for glassbreaks, and wired for motion. In every single room. Is that overkill...

I don't know about 'overkill' but I would at least provide wiring for all of those sensors. You can just wire them into a mudring and place a blank cover over it after drywall is in place.

Not only did I do this for my friend's house, but we also have two wiring runs of four conductor cables for future temp sensors and who knows what else. Also there are two cat5s and a coax on the left and right side walls of every room.

Remember sensors such as door/window/motion can be used for automation applications as well as security...

Not sure why I didn't think about just putting in a blank and wiring them to a mudring. That's a great idea. I should have thought of that after seeing many of your write-ups and pictures.

This will work out great. I don't have plans to have an actual panel yet. Probably middle of next year. I just wanted to wire all the sensors before drywall. Thanks guys!

 

[hucker]

Snypez:

I"m not sure I understand the above post, I have 1/2 inch diameter 1/32 thickness magnets and a single one actuates the sensor at about .8 inch which is about the same as the magnet that comes with the gri sensors. I just stuck the magnet on the linkage mechanism (with a bit of glue that I probably don't need) and it is working fine with a gap of 0.25 or so inches.

 

[beelzerob]

Snypez:

I"m not sure I understand the above post, I have 1/2 inch diameter 1/32 thickness magnets and a single one actuates the sensor at about .8 inch which is about the same as the magnet that comes with the gri sensors. I just stuck the magnet on the linkage mechanism (with a bit of glue that I probably don't need) and it is working fine with a gap of 0.25 or so inches.

Ok, I clarified my "data". The ones I had ordered were the ones that were linked for me, which are only 1/4" diameter. The most I could get those to reliably trip the switch at was 1/8" away....so the 1/2" diamater magnets appearantly have quite a larger reach.

For my windows, I don't see a surface where I could put a 1/2" magnet, even that thin....but I do have a smaller area where I can drill a very shallow hole, so I'll put the rare earth magnet there.

 

[hucker]

Finally I have some time. Here is a picture that might help understand what I did. I couldn't find a picture when I had the trim removed. The trim that covers the linkage could easily be pulled off by hand, I had to pull harder than I thought but once the contractor showed me how hard I could pull I wasn't so worried. I glued the magnet down with a dab of gorilla glue. It wasn't needed since the linkage is metal. I did it because I have small kids...

 

[felixrosbergen]

Hi gents,

I noticed some discussion about door/window contacts with and without 'pigtails'.

If there is not pigtail, does that mean the wiring is terminated on the sensor itself? I woudl much prefer that to having splices in the walls...

Is there a downside is the 'pigtallless' sensors?

 

[Sacedog]

Hi gents,

I noticed some discussion about door/window contacts with and without 'pigtails'.

If there is not pigtail, does that mean the wiring is terminated on the sensor itself? I woudl much prefer that to having splices in the walls...

Is there a downside is the 'pigtallless' sensors?

Correct, the contact will typically have screw down terminals to connect your wires too. Theese are usually preferred, so that you do not need to splice as you said, and then stuff your splices back through the hole in the window frame. I'm not aware of any downside.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Guys,

There seems to be some confusion here about Rare Earth magnets and other small magnets - there is a big difference.

From Wikipedia:

Rare-earth magnets are strong, permanent magnets made from alloys of rare earth elements. Rare-earth magnets are substantially stronger than ferrite or alnico magnets. The magnetic field typically produced by rare-earth magnets can be in excess of 1.2 teslas. Ferrite or ceramic magnets typically exhibit fields of 50 to 100 milliteslas.

The strength difference is very noticable. Make sure you get the right ones.

GRI makes a fine line of them. The most common one for this application is the MM-400.

 

[beelzerob]

Well, the window drilling has started, and all sensors and magnets are concealed. Very happy! I'll post pics when I can.

 

[beelzerob]

Windows are done! I posted pics on the first post.

 

[SnyperBob]

Looks great. I bought some of those pressure fit sensors that come with the rare earth donut magnet as well. Worked great. Mine didn't terminate on the sensor, they had the pigtails. These things were very easy to install and had four windows up and running in an hour or so

 

[beelzerob]

Looks great. I bought some of those pressure fit sensors that come with the rare earth donut magnet as well. Worked great. Mine didn't terminate on the sensor, they had the pigtails. These things were very easy to install and had four windows up and running in an hour or so

Ya, I absolutely didn't want the pigtail, so I ordered enough of the QC sensors to cover every window. But I DID want the rare-earth small magnet for the bottom sash of every window...so at one point I considered buying the QC connectors for all windows and then the pigtail sensors (which come with the donut magnet) for half the windows....but then I found the exact magnet I wanted at the magnet store, and they were much cheaper than buying a bunch of sensors I didn't need just to get the magnet.

 

[gwww]

Looks real nice. What did you do about EOL termination?

 

[Steve]

Looks like he decided against EOLs.