Woodworking thread

This depends on how much weight you intend to put on the countertop. If it were mine, I would include a frame under the counter to add rigidity. I don't think I would rely entirely on the stiffness of the counter surface to span the 4' across and nearly 2' depth. As for support, I have had good luck with a couple of options. One, simply use plywood on the two sides, leaving the front completely open. Second, cantilever out from the wall, with a diagonal brace between the wall and front of cabinet. Personally, I prefer the first option.

Legs would work as well, but I would be concerned about accidentally kicking them out, unless they were secured to the floor or heavily braced at the counter. When one includes the bracking, this seems like the most time-consuming approach of the three.

Agree- most all countertops you buy are on particle board, not very rigid at all. 4 foot span is pretty long- a 1x, even oak, is going to sag. Personally, I'd use a 2x4 on edge across the front, with the ends supported by oberkc's plywood sides.
 
Seeing how this is going to be in a garage and there is no telling what you're gonna slap up on that thing. I'd be inclined to make it as rigid as possible. I'd be inclined to use 2x6 or better.

There's nothing worse than trying to hammer/tap something on a project in/out of place and have your work surface moving, even if it's just a little flex. It leads to bending things you didn't intend or even worse missing the second tap because your hammer and piece both bounced.
 
So...I've had the frame clamp now sitting in the box it was delivered in, by the front door, for...oh...about 4 months now. We've decided to make "frames" one of our Christmas vacation projects.

The concensus here seems to be that a table saw is a better tool for cutting the mitres of the frame sides than a mitre saw. As it turns out, we don't have either kind of saw...but I can borrow a table saw.

However, that pre-supposes having a jig or sled, correct? Is that the first step, to creat a sled with a 45 deg angle on it for cutting?

Table saw better than a mitre saw for mitre cuts???
Nah....don't think so.... :horse:

But, if you will be using a table saw...best to make a gauge.
I don't think so, either. A good miter saw produces very nice angles.

The problem with picture framing with a miter saw is that the error adds up, especially since you usually need the flip the saw to cut half the joints. You end up making 8 cuts with a moving tool, even if it has stops. Hard to get all four joints tight, especially with a wide frame in a hard wood.

With a table saw you effectively cut both sides of the joint at the same time. As long as your jig is at 90 degrees (which is fixed once you build it, never moves) then the corners will be tight.
If you're using your mitre saw correctly, you don't adjust angle between cuts that meet in the corner. You cut your wood on both sides of the blade (one face-up, the other face-down). That way the actual angle doesn't matter, one cut can be 44*, and the other will be 46*, making a perfect 90* corner.
That being said, you can make great corners on either tool.
 
Thanks guys. Yes it will need to support some weight. The sink I purchased / did the cutout for is a stainless steel commercial slop sink. The two pieces of playwood with one brace between the two sides would do the trick.

Merry Christmas guys.
 
If you're using your mitre saw correctly, you don't adjust angle between cuts that meet in the corner. You cut your wood on both sides of the blade (one face-up, the other face-down). That way the actual angle doesn't matter, one cut can be 44*, and the other will be 46*, making a perfect 90* corner.
That being said, you can make great corners on either tool.

Except the wood will chip out where the teeth exit. Finish (face) surface needs to have the teeth going down through it- can't be flipping the pieces over.
 
Buy yourself a decent blade and forget about chipouts.

I used to have a "Forrest" "Woodworker II" blade and I could put a factory edge on melamine panels with it.

Didn't need a mitre saw in those days - cut everything on the table saw.

90 tooth carbide if I remember correctly.

Best money I ever spent.

I think it was about $100 back when I was into woodworking (70's and 80's) - likely a lot more now.

Don't even know if they are in business now but they always had a booth at the woodworking shows.


Merry Christmas,
 
Buy yourself a decent blade and forget about chipouts.

I used to have a "Forrest" "Woodworker II" blade and I could put a factory edge on melamine panels with it.

Didn't need a mitre saw in those days - cut everything on the table saw.

90 tooth carbide if I remember correctly.

Best money I ever spent.

I think it was about $100 back when I was into woodworking (70's and 80's) - likely a lot more now.

Don't even know if they are in business now but they always had a booth at the woodworking shows.


Merry Christmas,
Forrest blades are really nice.

I have the Woodworker II for my tablesaw. They market another one for mitersaws, "ChopMaster" or some such..

The Freud blades at Homedepot work well also.

Brian
 
Look what we just did: :horse:

stair155-vi.jpg


Bill Walters from Piedmont Home products built these. They're like a functional sculpture in oak. I "framed it" with a recessed panel octagonal opening:

stair165-vi.jpg


I have a Delta miter saw/contractors table saw that made it all possible. Awsome machines. I ended up adding a router table for my Porter Cable 690 to do the round-overs on ceiling trim in the library. Bill did everything by hand from cutting the mortises to the lathe work on the newels. I wish I knew my way around a chisel...

The stairs themselves presented an interesting problem for Fortress' lighting automation system. Tracklights are on in the library now whenever its dark outside. There's a hawkeye sensor near the ceiling that triggers when you start to go down the stairs to fire up the rest of the library lights. During the day, this activates all lights including the tracklights. The cats can't activate the lights when we're sleeping either. When somebody gets up in the middle of the night, this is disabled and stairway lighting comes on at a low level in case I need to get into the office for a 3AM emergency....
 
Thanks! Speaking of blades, I'm using Freud in my saws: 96 tooth in the miter saw and 80 tooth in the table saw. Laser damped, eighth inch kerf; they cut oak like butter when they're sharp. Have to bring them to Rocklers for re-sharpening though. Takes about a month too since it seems like there is only one guy on the planet who can sharpen them... I have 2 sets for this reason.
 
Well, my woodworking has turned a new corner, so now I have new questions! And instead of finding and joining some new forum specifically for woodworking, I thought I'd try here first and see if I can maintain my forum sanity.

I just bought a Hitachi table saw and Hitachi 12" mitre saw for $400 total on craigslist, and I'm quite pleased. Those were the 2 items I was missing, so I consider myself pretty well complete now with the most basic of tools.

I fired up my Grizzly 14" bandsaw for the first time this weekend (I won't tell you how long I've had it) and enjoyed what I could do with it. And so the questions begin:

1) I noticed the wood I cut with the bandsaw was highly grooved. Is that the norm, or is it more likely a result of using the Lowes bandsaw blade I bought? With that amount of grooving, it seems like I'm going to be spending a lot of time sanding or else have to look for a planer (not likely to happen there). As it turns out, I have access to a planar with my cousin next door, so for important stuff I have that outlet.

2) We have a ton of fallen logs on our property that we have just begun cutting up for firewood. Somehow I got the crazy idea that maybe some of these smaller logs could be cut into planks and then used for various things, like gifts, and picture frames. I got on the web and found that this isn't so wild or new an idea. Do any of you do that? The things I read on the net seemed to indicate you should be cutting fresh wet wood. I've got a ton of nice sized logs sitting on the ground for close to 2 years now and it would seem a shame to have to wait until we cut new logs to be able to use some of these.

3) I know that releasing the tension on the bandsaw blade is major important, and so I'm trying to think of some way to ensure I do that when I'm done with the thing. I had thought about mounting a mercury switch on the handle connected to some light or something else. I also thought about connecting the mercury switch to a relay for the saw itself so that I wouldn't accidentally start the saw with the tension lever released...that seems like it would be bad. Any good suggestions or trickers/reminders you guys use?

4) Do I need to clean the bandsaw blade? I thought I read somewhere about cleaning the blade when you first unpackage it to get the gunk off, but I didn't do that. I see an awful lot of sawdust sticking to the teeth now, but I don't know if that's normal. *shrug* it seems to cut just fine still.

5) Do any of you use the feather locs by bench dog? Those seem awful useful for keeping the board against the fence, and also preventing kickback on the tablesaw. I've got $50 to spend on amazon if I want, and I could get 4 of those things doing that. Just wondering if they're all they're cracked up to be. Ive heard other sights praise them and their usefulness.

6) I had hoped to make a tablesaw crosscut sled as one of my first projects but I ran into an immediate problem. My hitachi table saw top doesn't have a perfectly open grooves for the mitre gauges. Instead, in two places, there are little tabs that stick out over the groove...apparently to keep the mitre gauge that came with the table from being easily lifted out. Now...I think that's just stupid. But the bigger question is how should I then create my table saw sled? The only way I can think to do so is to shape a piece of wood like the mitre gauge..where its wider at the bottom to fill the slot, but then narrowed at the top to miss the notches. It's a pain too because then I can't just drop the sled into place I'll have to slide it on from the end. Grrr.

7) I'm concerned that the tops of my bandsaw, drill press and table saw are all either corroding or dirty. Im not sure exactly what the metal is but they all seem very sturdy....so maybe cast iron?? Anyway, how do you guys recommend cleaning and maintaing those surfaces so that they stay in good shape for a long time?

I think that's all I got for now. Thanks for any help so I won't have to burden some poor unsuspecting woodworking forum...yet!
 
M
Well, my woodworking has turned a new corner, so now I have new questions! And instead of finding and joining some new forum specifically for woodworking, I thought I'd try here first and see if I can maintain my forum sanity.

I just bought a Hitachi table saw and Hitachi 12" mitre saw for $400 total on craigslist, and I'm quite pleased. Those were the 2 items I was missing, so I consider myself pretty well complete now with the most basic of tools.

I fired up my Grizzly 14" bandsaw for the first time this weekend (I won't tell you how long I've had it) and enjoyed what I could do with it. And so the questions begin:

1) I noticed the wood I cut with the bandsaw was highly grooved. Is that the norm, or is it more likely a result of using the Lowes bandsaw blade I bought? With that amount of grooving, it seems like I'm going to be spending a lot of time sanding or else have to look for a planer (not likely to happen there). As it turns out, I have access to a planar with my cousin next door, so for important stuff I have that outlet.
Start buying him six-packs now. ;-)
Yes, it is pretty much the norm. You may be able to improve it some by using a fence that is set up just right to cancel the inevitable lead of the blade, and by improving your feeding technique, and possibly by tuning up your saw, but it is kind of inevitable. Oh- are you using a wide blade? For re-sawing, you want as wide as your saw can handle. Make sure you have the tension set right too- as well as your blade guides and bearings.

You will also need access to a joiner- hopefully a wide one. Does your cousin have one of those as well? If your stock is not flat and square, you will be limited in what you can do. The other approach is to get a couple of apprentices and teach them to use a hand plane. ;-)
2) We have a ton of fallen logs on our property that we have just begun cutting up for firewood. Somehow I got the crazy idea that maybe some of these smaller logs could be cut into planks and then used for various things, like gifts, and picture frames. I got on the web and found that this isn't so wild or new an idea. Do any of you do that? The things I read on the net seemed to indicate you should be cutting fresh wet wood. I've got a ton of nice sized logs sitting on the ground for close to 2 years now and it would seem a shame to have to wait until we cut new logs to be able to use some of these.

I did it once with some ash. You can do it, and it does save some money, but you need to dry it for a long time, outdoors, then indoors, then surface it, etc. A lot of work. Also you will have some loss. Unless you have a really big saw, you are going to end up with like 5-6" wide boards too.
You could try it with the down stuff- probem is it hasn't dried evenly, so you will have lots of checking, rotting, etc. I wouldn't bother, unless some of the trees have special sentimental value.
Trunks only, btw, branches will twist up like prezels when the tension is released.

3) I know that releasing the tension on the bandsaw blade is major important, and so I'm trying to think of some way to ensure I do that when I'm done with the thing. I had thought about mounting a mercury switch on the handle connected to some light or something else. I also thought about connecting the mercury switch to a relay for the saw itself so that I wouldn't accidentally start the saw with the tension lever released...that seems like it would be bad. Any good suggestions or trickers/reminders you guys use?
Nothing special- I do have a spotlight that I turn on manually when I use the bandsaw, so when I turn it off, I'm reminded to release the saw. It is not really quite as critical as some put out, but I tend to release it if I am not going to be using the saw again soon.
4) Do I need to clean the bandsaw blade? I thought I read somewhere about cleaning the blade when you first unpackage it to get the gunk off, but I didn't do that. I see an awful lot of sawdust sticking to the teeth now, but I don't know if that's normal. *shrug* it seems to cut just fine still.
Dunno. easy to clean when installed though. I mounted a brass wire brush inside my lower cover to brush off the blade and keep the dust from accumulating on my tires.
5) Do any of you use the feather locs by bench dog? Those seem awful useful for keeping the board against the fence, and also preventing kickback on the tablesaw. I've got $50 to spend on amazon if I want, and I could get 4 of those things doing that. Just wondering if they're all they're cracked up to be. Ive heard other sights praise them and their usefulness.
Featherboards are very useful. . . but I don't buy them, I just make them. Easy with a bandsaw. then I clamp them wherever they are needed.
6) I had hoped to make a tablesaw crosscut sled as one of my first projects but I ran into an immediate problem. My hitachi table saw top doesn't have a perfectly open grooves for the mitre gauges. Instead, in two places, there are little tabs that stick out over the groove...apparently to keep the mitre gauge that came with the table from being easily lifted out. Now...I think that's just stupid. But the bigger question is how should I then create my table saw sled? The only way I can think to do so is to shape a piece of wood like the mitre gauge..where its wider at the bottom to fill the slot, but then narrowed at the top to miss the notches. It's a pain too because then I can't just drop the sled into place I'll have to slide it on from the end. Grrr.
If it is a true T-slot, that is exactly what you need to do. If it is just a couple of tabs, you could just get out the file and remove them.
I guess if it is a full T-slot, you could also use a narrow rail and ignore the bottom of the slot.
7) I'm concerned that the tops of my bandsaw, drill press and table saw are all either corroding or dirty. Im not sure exactly what the metal is but they all seem very sturdy....so maybe cast iron?? Anyway, how do you guys recommend cleaning and maintaing those surfaces so that they stay in good shape for a long time?
Typically cast iron. Some of the less expensive stuff might be aluminum. I clean my iron with steel wool and wd-40 if it gets rusty (mosty when I do stupid things) then remove the wd-40 with paint thinner, then coat with hard automotive paste wax to make stuff sliiiide over it nicely.


Markd

ps- ok, I tried on two computers- is the editing window working ok for other people? Cause it sure sucks for me! No cursor, no cut/paste, no arrow keys.
 
With that amount of grooving, it seems like I'm going to be spending a lot of time sanding or else have to look for a planer (not likely to happen there).

None of my saws, including bandsaw, create a surface that doesn't require addtional smoothing if this is to be your finished surface. Planers and jointers are your friend. Still, don't discount hand planes and scrapers. Use of a properly sharpened and tuned hand plane can be one of the great joys of woodworking.

I've got a ton of nice sized logs sitting on the ground for close to 2 years now and it would seem a shame to have to wait until we cut new logs to be able to use some of these.

It would be nice, but I suspect you will often be frustrated when your nice project starts to warp, twist, and crack. If it were me, I would saw it into planks, bring it inside, and let it sit for a year or so, making sure that air can circulate around all surfaces. Many speed up the process with a kiln, but I assume this does not interest you. After the initial waiting period, you will have a ready supply.

Do any of you use the feather locs by bench dog? Those seem awful useful for keeping the board against the fence, and also preventing kickback on the tablesaw. I've got $50 to spend on amazon if I want, and I could get 4 of those things doing that. Just wondering if they're all they're cracked up to be. Ive heard other sights praise them and their usefulness.

Yes, they are nice. Yes, you can make your own, but if you have $50 at amazon and nothing else jumping out at you, this would be worthwhile to me.

I'm concerned that the tops of my bandsaw, drill press and table saw are all either corroding or dirty. Im not sure exactly what the metal is but they all seem very sturdy....so maybe cast iron?? Anyway, how do you guys recommend cleaning and maintaing those surfaces so that they stay in good shape for a long time?

Keep them clean! The other poster had good solutions. Automotive car wax is a solution I have often seen. There are also products specificially marketed for this. I use Boeshield penetrating lubricant/wax. So far, the surfaces remain shiney and slippery.
 
Ha, I KNEW this was the right place to come, and not some dumb woodworking forum!! :D

Yes, my cousin has a planer and a joiner. We started out "sharing" all these big woodworking tools, but since then we've gone from living 50 ft away to more like 500 ft. So we split everything we had. I ended up with all the smaller tools and the drill press and bandsaw, and he got the joiner and planer and a few other tools. But we both know we can use each other's whenever we want, it's just not as convenient as it was.

I've always wondered what the use of a planer was because doesn't it change the width of your board? And same with the joiner...after it shaves off a side, now you have some kind of unusual width board. I just wasn't sure how you could use boards like that. I'm used to boards that have all a simple standard dimension.

I'm not adverse to hand planing. Sounds like it adds some authenticity. I really wish there was some kind of woodworking club around here, but my searches so far have proven useless.

Kilning doesn't appeal, and waiting a couple years is fine too....I've waited about 5 years just to use this bandsaw for the first time.

Some of these logs are pretty long...do you think it's reasonable that in the middle are sections that are pretty close to just-fallen wet? I guess the bottom line is it doesn't hurt to try it, huh? And I should be drying it inside...as in, in the basement? That's about the only semi-constant temperature place I can think of inside. I have a pole barn outside with plenty of room but of course it will get awful cold during the winter.

One of the videos online also mentioned boeshield...is that an online ordering kind of thing? Seems kind of specialized to expect to find it in the big box stores.

And sounds like I'll buy some feather boards then from amazon. I found some with some extra features that weren't from benchdog...I can get 2 pair (so a total of 4) for just around the $50.

The groove in the table saw is NOT a true T slot. The tabs just stick out over it in a couple places. That's why I can't use just the t-width for a mitre slider. The tabs are pretty hefty, so I think it may require the dremel. But I like the suggestion...I had also thought of just removing them so the mitre slot is completely free. I'll post some pics before I get into that to get some final advice before I alter the table top forever. It feels comforting knowing that I don't care if I wreck the resale value, since I intend to keep that saw for life.

Excellent replies and great help. Thanks!!
 
I've always wondered what the use of a planer was because doesn't it change the width of your board? And same with the joiner...after it shaves off a side, now you have some kind of unusual width board. I just wasn't sure how you could use boards like that. I'm used to boards that have all a simple standard dimension.
Ok, the usual sequence is to take your rough board and join one narrow edge. Now turn the board 90 degrees, and using that edge agains the fence, face-join one side. Now run it over to the table saw, and with the good edge against the fence, and the good face down, rip the other edge straight (now you have two parallel edges). Now you go to the planer, and put the good face on the bed, and plane until the board is flat and at the dimension you want (now the faces are parallel too).

One of the advantages of doing all this is that you don't HAVE to use standard dimension wood. You size it to fit the purpose and aesthetics of the piece you are making. Especially the thickness. When you are doing this type of work (the final thicknessing and width cutting) it is always a good idea to do ALL the stock you will need (plus a little extra) as it can be difficult to get back to the precise machine settings.
I'm not adverse to hand planing. Sounds like it adds some authenticity. I really wish there was some kind of woodworking club around here, but my searches so far have proven useless.
It can. It can also be very time consuming. ;-)
Kilning doesn't appeal, and waiting a couple years is fine too....I've waited about 5 years just to use this bandsaw for the first time.

Some of these logs are pretty long...do you think it's reasonable that in the middle are sections that are pretty close to just-fallen wet? I guess the bottom line is it doesn't hurt to try it, huh? And I should be drying it inside...as in, in the basement? That's about the only semi-constant temperature place I can think of inside. I have a pole barn outside with plenty of room but of course it will get awful cold during the winter.
You can try, but it is unlikely you will get good results. Play with some short pieces first- unless you have a lot of time and energy on your hands, I think you'll find more productive things to do. If you want to get into it, the effective thing to do is to buy a bandsaw mill, and a moisture meter.
You won't know if you have wasted that time until a couple of years has gone by and you see how the wood is drying. Pole barn is a good place, BTW- that is as "indoors" as you need it to be. You might want to acclimate (as opposed to dry) any wood you are going to build with for a week or two in your shop.
The groove in the table saw is NOT a true T slot. The tabs just stick out over it in a couple places. That's why I can't use just the t-width for a mitre slider. The tabs are pretty hefty, so I think it may require the dremel. But I like the suggestion...I had also thought of just removing them so the mitre slot is completely free. I'll post some pics before I get into that to get some final advice before I alter the table top forever. It feels comforting knowing that I don't care if I wreck the resale value, since I intend to keep that saw for life.

Excellent replies and great help. Thanks!!
It probably won't affect the resale as long as you do a neat job. You are going to do a neat job, right? ;-)
 
Back
Top