Z wave network programming help!

[payele]

Hi all,
 
Project I have uses about 90 z wave nodes, mostly vizia dimmers, switches, scene and zone controllers with an omnipro II controller.
While everything works less the scene and zone controllers which take forever to get a command right the few times they respond, the Leviton usb stick and software may easily be the most frustrating thing i've even dealt with which says a lot for guy twice divorced.
 
Is there a better way to set up this network or is z wave a complete failure? 
 

 

[drvnbysound]

I use the VRUSB and Leviton software to setup multiple Zwave networks and haven't had any issues with the software... granted, I only have about 25 devices or so.
 
What kind of issues are you having?

 

[ddennerline]

With 90 devices, you might be at long end of Z-Wave platform support. Having said that, I have more than 25 Vizia+ devices - including a scene and zone controller. The VRCXXX scene/zone controllers turn on/off lights quite quickly.
 
Unfortunately with 90 devices, there will be lots of walking and configuration. ZenSys has added a new auto-include function in latest firmware, but not many controllers support feature.
 
You might try see if how the VRC0P+3 can reach every device using the RF Installer Toolkit > Diagnostic memory. In addition, you might have to “Update Routes” several times.
 
Lastly, I don't know how good the integration between OmniPro and VRC0P+3. It's entirely possible the network is fine, but OmniPro has some type of weakness.

 

[ano]

Just wondering, what made you select Z-Wave over UPB/HLC?

 

[drvnbysound]

Just wondering, what made you select Z-Wave over UPB/HLC?

 
For me. it was the fact that Zwave offers locks and thermostats as well.

 

[ano]

For me. it was the fact that Zwave offers locks and thermostats as well.

Makes sense.

 

[fcwilt]

For me. it was the fact that Zwave offers locks and thermostats as well.

 
Do you understand Groups, Associations and Scenes?
 
I could never quite grasp the intent.
 
UPB gets by with just Links and that right away made sense to me but Z-wave never clicked.

 

[NeverDie]

Is there a better way to set up this network or is z wave a complete failure? 

I'm using four z-trollers networked over ethernet.  It is a huge improvement.  Some might call it a workaround to inherent problems in the way z-wave was implemented.  A lot of people seem content with the improvement they get from networking two or three  z-trollers.    
 
Vera has an alternative solution which involves connecting multiple Vera's over ethernet.  I found their gear runs too slowly to take it seriously, but I guess maybe some people like it.
 
P.S.  "the Leviton usb stick and software may easily be the most frustrating thing i've even dealt with which says a lot for guy twice divorced."  Z-wave is practically a black box, and for sure that can make troubleshooting very frustrating.  I can't fathom why there aren't better diagnostics.

 

[ddennerline]

NeverDie how many devices and square foot are installed?
 
Z-Wave scene is a preset lighting level for one or more lights. Since the devices have the local configuration, the lights can be manipulated very quickly
 
Z-Wave zone/group is a set of one ore more lights that can be turned on/off as logical unit
 
Basically ZenSys has done a big disservice by not releasing a robust set of diagnostics and ability to track network status. Every controller does it differently - or not at all. The RFIT has some good diagnostics, but the diagnostics do not work with in cases - locks being one example.

 

[fcwilt]

NeverDie how many devices and square foot are installed?
 
Z-Wave scene is a preset lighting level for one or more lights. Since the devices have the local configuration, the lights can be manipulated very quickly
 
Z-Wave zone/group is a set of one ore more lights that can be turned on/off as logical unit
 
Basically ZenSys has done a big disservice by not releasing a robust set of diagnostics and ability to track network status. Every controller does it differently - or not at all. The RFIT has some good diagnostics, but the diagnostics do not work with in cases - locks being one example.

 
So what is the difference between turning a Scene on/off (which can affect multiple lights) and turning a Group on/off? 
 
Or do Scenes not have an on and off state?
 
Thanks.

 

[NeverDie]

NeverDie how many devices and square foot are installed?
 
Z-Wave scene is a preset lighting level for one or more lights. Since the devices have the local configuration, the lights can be manipulated very quickly
 
Z-Wave zone/group is a set of one ore more lights that can be turned on/off as logical unit
 
Basically ZenSys has done a big disservice by not releasing a robust set of diagnostics and ability to track network status. Every controller does it differently - or not at all. The RFIT has some good diagnostics, but the diagnostics do not work with in cases - locks being one example.

At the moment I have 60+ z-wave nodes in operation, which equate to about 180+ z-wave "devices."  They are spread over 4600 square feet.
 
What is RFIT?  
 
When I was running HS2 I was able to glean valuable info out of Z-Seer, but it doesn't work under HS3 and never will.  With Z-Seer I could, through testing, identify which nodes were intermittently connected, and I could then work on strengthening those connections.  I found that very helpful in getting high reliability, and through testing I could also have confidence in knowing whether or not I had gotten it.  

 

[drvnbysound]

What is RFIT?  

 
Leviton RF Installer Tool: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=38971&minisite=10251

 

[ano]

When I was running HS2 I was able to glean valuable info out of Z-Seer, but it doesn't work under HS3 and never will.  With Z-Seer I could, through testing, identify which nodes were intermittently connected, and I could then work on strengthening those connections.  I found that very helpful in getting high reliability, and through testing I could also have confidence in knowing whether or not I had gotten it.  

You make Zigbee sound better and better. When you first start a small network its rather unreliable for a day or so, but suddenly it works great. After that add 10,000 devices if you want, it will work better and better.

 

[NeverDie]

You make Zigbee sound better and better. When you first start a small network its rather unreliable for a day or so, but suddenly it works great. After that add 10,000 devices if you want, it will work better and better.

 
I wouldn't recommend z-wave to others.  I am by no means an advocate.  At this point it would be costly for me to switch to something else, so I instead settled for getting the most I can out of the equipment I already have.
 
That being said, at some point change will become inevitable.  Which Zigbee devices do you like?

 

[ano]

I use a Leviton Omni Pro II to control it all. I have 4 Kwikset Zigbee 910 locks, 2 OmniStat2 thermostats, and some Smartenit and Centralite modules and switchs. (I use UPB for most switches.)  Home Depot now sells CREE and GE Zigbee LED bulbs at are $14.95 each, or you can get the GE ones for $25 for 2. They both work well. I do like UPB, but for locks and remotes and sensors, Zigbee works well. 
 
Zigbee is still evolving, but I thing in a different way than Z-Way. There are getting to be many Zigbee devices from lots of manufacturers, and they all pair, and you always have 2-way status, but the number of devices is growing faster than the system makers can keep up. For example there are now lots Zigbee motion and window and flood sensors, and they can pair with my Omni panel, but they can't be used as a zone to trip the alarm. Zigbee appliance modules report the power used of devices plugged into it, and PC Access can display this power, but the panel has no way to use it.  Connectivity is great, but like I say, growing pains. 
 
If you follow the evolution of Zigbee its pretty exciting. Smartphones will have Zigbee before long, the RF4CE standard is replacing IR in remotes, and then there is home automation, smart metering, the connected Light Link standard. 
 
Zigbee took a real long to get going because so many companies and industries had to have their say on how the standard would evolve, but what was created was a standard that was very well thought out, and extremely secure as well.
 
Z-Wave was created by one company with a fairly narrow scope, and like startups, they had to get the product out to stay in business. They did a good job at getting an ecosystem in place, but I think they are starting to come up against some of the limitations of their initial design. With Zigbee it was a LONG path to here, but you are now seeing the benefits of all that work.