Z-Wave Options

[DrRick]

Hi! I installed a combination of ACT and Intermatic Z-Wave stuff a little over a year ago (maybe more...) - back in the days when you used the old ACT computer interface and all of the problems associated with that (I have now moved to the Intermatic USB stick and am starting to use ThinkEssential, having moved from HomeSeer). I'm getting back into it and have noticed that there are now more vendors and selection. Can anybody provide a brief comment or two on the new options. At Automated Outlet I now see:

ACT Zwave

Intermatic HomeSettings Zwave

Intermatic InTouch™ - Advanced Home Control

Vizia RF By Leviton

What's the difference between the two Intermatic options - polling vs two way? Different quality? I think I know what scenes are in Zwave terminology, but what does scene-enabled mean for the Vizia devices? Does that mean that they can handle scenes independent of some software (such as ThinkEssential)?

Thanks for any further help in this!

 

[HighTest]

I don't recall exactly who uses what, but there are three generation of Z-wave chipsets from Zensys (the only maker of the Z-wave chipset that all the Z-wave providers use).

Z-Wave ZW0301 Single Chip (16z 8051 CPU, 2Kbytes SRAM, 256 bytes SRAM dedicated to CPU, 32K Flash for protocol and application storage), pin compatible with ZW0201, appears almost identical in specification but lower power requirements.

Z-Wave ZW0201 Single Chip (16z 8051 CPU, 2Kbytes SRAM, 256 bytes SRAM dedicated to CPU, 32K Flash for protocol and application storage)

Z-Wave ZW0102 Single Chip (8Mhz 8051 CPU, 2Kbytes SRAM, 128 bytes SRAM dedicated to CPU, 32K Flash for protocol and application storage)

I don't know what switches use what chipset generation, but I've seen speculation that the Vizia RF uses at a minimum the ZW0201 or even newer. The extra speed of the CPU and SRAM allows for the two way communications that the Vizia RF line has? I suspect so.

Probably the vendors don't really want us to know the differences and who uses what. If someone is willing to look inside a switch from each product line, you'll see the model number of the Zensys chipset and can confirm who uses what.

Don't know if this has much bearing on who you should choose, but thought the information may be usefull to some.

 

[upstatemike]

I don't recall exactly who uses what, but there are three generation of Z-wave chipsets from Zensys (the only maker of the Z-wave chipset that all the Z-wave providers use).

Z-Wave ZW0301 Single Chip (16z 8051 CPU, 2Kbytes SRAM, 256 bytes SRAM dedicated to CPU, 32K Flash for protocol and application storage), pin compatible with ZW0201, appears almost identical in specification but lower power requirements.

Z-Wave ZW0201 Single Chip (16z 8051 CPU, 2Kbytes SRAM, 256 bytes SRAM dedicated to CPU, 32K Flash for protocol and application storage)

Z-Wave ZW0102 Single Chip (8Mhz 8051 CPU, 2Kbytes SRAM, 128 bytes SRAM dedicated to CPU, 32K Flash for protocol and application storage)

I don't know what switches use what chipset generation, but I've seen speculation that the Vizia RF uses at a minimum the ZW0201 or even newer. The extra speed of the CPU and SRAM allows for the two way communications that the Vizia RF line has? I suspect so.

Probably the vendors don't really want us to know the differences and who uses what. If someone is willing to look inside a switch from each product line, you'll see the model number of the Zensys chipset and can confirm who uses what.

Don't know if this has much bearing on who you should choose, but thought the information may be usefull to some.

Don't forget the RF transmission speed which I believe is different in newer generation stuff.

 

[DrRick]

Thanks for the information. I'm looking to upgrade to 2 way and wanted to understand what lines were two way. Also, anybody know about the ZENSOR stuff (I'm looking to upgrade my existing smoke detectors and doorbells and this sounded cool... not always the best way to run a house, but ... )

 

[Rupp]

DrRick,
Have a look at these matrix's. It will give you a ton of info on the various switches.
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z...rix-W16C61.aspx

http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z...trix-W7C61.aspx

Just so you know all Z-Wave devices are backwardly compatible. Many of the less expensive switches are now 2 way in HomeSeer due to some design changes in the software.

 

[ChrisWalker]

DrRick,

Just checking in... The ZENSOR devices basically live on their own network which "meshes" (no pun intended) with the standard Z-Wave devices. They're simpler repeater devices, and they can communicate through nodes on the main network--but don't have any routing intelligence in them. That's because they're designed for long-life battery operation.

Products based on this functionality will hopefully hit the market or at least be announced in 2008.

Chris

 

[HighTest]

DrRick,
Have a look at these matrix's. It will give you a ton of info on the various switches.
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z...rix-W16C61.aspx

http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z...trix-W7C61.aspx

Just so you know all Z-Wave devices are backwardly compatible. Many of the less expensive switches are now 2 way in HomeSeer due to some design changes in the software.

Great info! Missed it previously as I don't use HomeSeer, but the information is great. Also provides me with one more vendor choice of Z-wave hardware, thanks!

 

[twilo123]

Chris,

if the zensor products are repeaters and do not contain route tables how do the pass the info on? do they just do a broadcast everytime? if so, could they flood the network with messages and create a bottleneck? or are they given something like a default gateway to use to get info into the main network? if so, where is the redundancy in case the DG goes down?

if the message is unicast how do they time the messages for when the zensor product wakes up. i see a few possible situations here:

1. the message keeps being sent after timeouts possibly flooding the network if the zensor product just went to sleep and you have to wait for it to wake up again.
2. the retransmission periods are increased to keep the traffic down. if the zensor just went to sleep having the retransmission timeout period longer would possibly mean say half the messages were sent until the next wakeup period as oppposed to #1.
3. increase the time for the message to be heard by the receiving zensor. add data to the payload or preamble to create a longer message which would overlap the zensor timeout period. this way no matter when the zensor went to sleep the message would be available when it woke up. this solution would probably work but may wind up slowing down that part of the network.
4. use the same theory as #3 but use some sort of time keeper like ntp for windows. instead of increasing the packet size, use more intelligent scheduling of packets. something along the same lines as how computer memory traditionally works. a crystal could be used to keep time and a microprocessor could/rom keep the program/processing routine to know when zensor receivers are awake and when to transmit a message. a new unit could query an existing unit initially to get the timed rthythm.

just curious if you have some more detailed info on this..

also, will the zensor (i assume class) be included in your pro edition and sdk by the time it comes out or do you have to wait until after it comes out to start working on incorporating into your products?


~Rob

 

[ChrisWalker]

twilo123,

1. Here's the easiest way to describe the new ZENSOR-type Z-Wave nodes. Let's take for example a window shade. In order to have very-long-battery-life, its Z-Wave chip needs to be asleep all the time, yet needs to be "controllable." So, it is by default asleep. Except that it wakes up for a few milliseconds every quarter second. The device communicating with it sends out a message which is a quarter second long (much like a dialtone--it's a steady message, and you can hear that it's there even if you just wake up for a few milliseconds yourself).
2. As far as repeating, the ZENSOR devices can repeat messages, such as in an emergency scenario. Take smoke detectors for instance. If one goes off, it sends a broadcast out to all ZENSORS in its network to also sounds their alarms. Each one that hears the message repeats it, waiting to make sure that it's not talking RF over another one. Simple, and hopefully effective.
3. Yes, we'll be including ZENSOR support in an upcoming Pro release. We're hoping that the new USB sticks (such as the new ControlThink Z-Wave USB adapter) will be firmware upgradable, as ZENSOR functionality requires Z-Wave v5.xx+ (which is still in beta). We're also adding support to the Z-Wave PC SDK (which is what ThinkEssentials is built on top of).

Chris