ELK-WSV install

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inline

Member
So I ordered the ELK-WSV after thinking about it for years and had it installed yesterday.  I still need to do my wiring to the unit though.  As such I've thought about a few different approaches in terms of wiring for power.  Wanted to get some feedback on my ideas.
 
1. Spend $$ to get the ELK-P212S to power the unit, but this entails getting a separate backup battery now for this power supply, battery shelf, etc.
 
2. Use a cheap 12v 1.5a power supply hooked into my UPS to supply power (now dependent upon something external)
 
3. Connect power directly to the 12v 8Ah battery that is connected to my ELK-M1G (this way, no additional anything and battery backup as well).  I like this idea, but does anyone see any downsides to this approach?  Normally I wouldn't do this, but as the ELK-WSV is a rarely used item, I was thinking that a 5 second use from the battery in such a rare instance wouldn't be a big deal.
 
Thoughts?
 
If you're close enough to the Elk to steal power from its battery, I don't see a problem.  I'd do that over not having it backed up any day.
 
I think it was on Elk's site a few years ago where they even showed examples of pulling directly off the battery using a relay for a siren or something similar, so it seemed they somewhat condoned the idea.
 
Maybe I'm the lone standout, but I prefer to keep as much standby on the system and monkeying with the batteries, leads,etc. when it's really not that necessary, IMHO.
 
Less than $50 will get you a very nice enclosure, battery, transformer, and 2.5A power supply all day long from 3-4 different common PS manufacturers (Honeywell, Altronix, Stealth, Elk).Compared to the price of the valve, I consider that a drop in the bucket.
 
Certainly nothing in the world wrong with that - but, it's another expense and it's another battery to monitor/maintain.  At least the Elk one will remind him when there's an issue, but if he gets a generic/non-p212, then it's up to him to check it periodically.
 
Seems a bit overkill to me to have your WSV on a UPS.  They can be manually actuated.  Mine is set to shut off the water when I arm the system away.  So, no need for battery backup since someone will be home to manually turn it off should the highly unlikely event of a power failure and ruptured water line happen simultaneously.  
 
My WSV is powered by its own 12v transformer, no ups.
 
Lou Apo said:
highly unlikely event of a power failure and ruptured water line happen simultaneously.
Click to expand...
Unless this is for a remote location and the power loss causes the pipes to freeze and burst.
 
Automate said:
Unless this is for a remote location and the power loss causes the pipes to freeze and burst.
Click to expand...
 
My recommendation would be to have the water shut off when you leave, so the water would already be off.  Also, a pipe freeze water leak is one of the toughest to detect because it may not happen where you have a leak detector.  Which is another good reason to have the water turn off every time you leave the house.
 
In fact, I recommend to everyone to shut off the water when you leave town manually if you don't have an automatic valve.  My parents have done that since I was a little kid.  And if it is a vacation house or you are planning on being gone a long time and it is in freeze country, I would suggest actually draining the pipes.
 
I've been thinking more about my original idea #3 and one problem potentially is that if the battery is failing or failed, it might not have enough current to supply the ELK-WSV.  I'm afraid at that point there would be too much of a draw on the charger part of the ELK-M1G and maybe this might damage something.  I'm also not keen on taping the battery directly, just doesn't seem elegant.
 
So, I'm back to either option #1 or #2.  Either would be fine really, but maybe I'll just do it right and get the ELK-P212S.  The only thing is I'd rather not have to deal with a second battery.  It would be nice if the ELK-P212S could be setup not to charge a battery, but draw from it in case of a power outage.  I don't think that's a possibility though from what I've read in terms of options on the manual for the ELK-P212S.
 
I already have the original enclosure that I never used with my ELK-M1G (I opted to get the 28" cabinet from the beginning), so I can just use that as my additional power cabinet.
 
I think I will do like Lou does as well and turn the water off a few hours after AWAY mode has been enacted to take all leak possibilities into account.
 
inline said:
I've been thinking more about my original idea #3 and one problem potentially is that if the battery is failing or failed, it might not have enough current to supply the ELK-WSV.  I'm afraid at that point there would be too much of a draw on the charger part of the ELK-M1G and maybe this might damage something.  I'm also not keen on taping the battery directly, just doesn't seem elegant.
 
So, I'm back to either option #1 or #2.  Either would be fine really, but maybe I'll just do it right and get the ELK-P212S.  The only thing is I'd rather not have to deal with a second battery.  It would be nice if the ELK-P212S could be setup not to charge a battery, but draw from it in case of a power outage.  I don't think that's a possibility though from what I've read in terms of options on the manual for the ELK-P212S.
 
I already have the original enclosure that I never used with my ELK-M1G (I opted to get the 28" cabinet from the beginning), so I can just use that as my additional power cabinet.
 
I think I will do like Lou does as well and turn the water off a few hours after AWAY mode has been enacted to take all leak possibilities into account.
Click to expand...
 
Originally I had it shut off water immediately when the system arms away.  This is the safest way to do it.  But my wife wanted to run the washer adn/or dishwasher while away, so I delayed by 45 minutes which suffices.  While it does take a bit longer than 45 minutes to run those appliances, typically you don't start them as you walk out the door.  Frankly, I don't think you should run the washer or dishwasher when you are not home, but my wife would have none of it.  I do have water sensors under those appliances so they would shut off the water if something happened during those 45 minutes.
 
 If there were a power failure in the 45 minutes after I left, and a leak occurred prior to power restoring, I am vulnerable.  However, it still would trigger an alarm and CS would notify me of both the power failure and the leak, so I would know to return home to fix it.
 
Lou Apo said:
Seems a bit overkill to me to have your WSV on a UPS.  They can be manually actuated. 
Click to expand...
 
Manually...not last time I checked. Clue me in here. What am I missing.
 
DELInstallations said:
Maybe I'm the lone standout, but I prefer to keep as much standby on the system and monkeying with the batteries, leads,etc. when it's really not that necessary, IMHO.
 
Less than $50 will get you a very nice enclosure, battery, transformer, and 2.5A power supply all day long from 3-4 different common PS manufacturers (Honeywell, Altronix, Stealth, Elk).Compared to the price of the valve, I consider that a drop in the bucket.
Click to expand...
 
I had a post that was very similar to this and I decided not to post it for fear that it might be taken the wrong way.
 
I have to agree. If you can spend the money on one of the most expensive WSV's on the market, then the proper power shouldn't be an issue. A battery every 3 to 5 years isn't that much considering that supply could power much more than just the WSV.
 
No need to worry about anything being taken the wrong way,I posed 3 possibilities, and was just looking for a discussion on those ideas or if anyone had a better idea.
 
I've already talked myself out of option #3, so it's between 1 and 2 now.  Besides cost, #1 is more complexity, so I might just do option #2 for now and see how it goes, especially while testing...but still not 100% sure yet which I'll go with long-term.
 
The valve is really nice though, well worth the cost.  I paid a little extra in labor to have unions installed and a bypass valve so I can remove the ELK-WSV if I had to replace it for some reason.
 
gatchel said:
Manually...not last time I checked. Clue me in here. What am I missing.
Click to expand...
 
You can manually turn the dial like thing on top.  When you do, it spins the motor.  It requires a bit of force, but not that much, you are working on the high torque side of a very geared down motor.  They have that yellow line drawn on the top so you can see which position the valve is in.  I don't think you should make a regular habit of it since I suppose you could strip the gears.  But in a pinch. ..  
 
Though I suspect you could do it a lot without damaging the unit, it is built like a brick shit house.  That thing could probably take your finger off if you actuated with your finger in there.  Somewhere I saw a video of it chopping a pencil in half without even slowing down or straining a bit.
 
You could also put a regular manual shut off valve next to the WSV if this was something you felt you needed.
 
Work2Play said:
Certainly nothing in the world wrong with that - but, it's another expense and it's another battery to monitor/maintain.  At least the Elk one will remind him when there's an issue, but if he gets a generic/non-p212, then it's up to him to check it periodically.
Click to expand...
Can't say I agree....$10 for a 4Ah battery, replace it at the same time as the panel battery, 3-5 years, assuming there has not been a deep discharge,  but that can be solved for less than $10 for a LBC.
 
I wouldn't go through the expense and effort for a 212S, save those for mission critical system power, but that's me...if I really wanted to supervise the supply for AC and LB, it's easy enough to get an Altronix that has those built in.
 
I'd go that route or a suitable supply/wall wart and toss a RIB relay in if I really needed to supervise it.
 
Thank you for all the discussion and the ideas.  I am expanding the M1G in my second house in Upstate NY to include the latest WSV.  We are there every other week, holidays and two weeks during the summer.  I did not want to go through the pain of draining the pipes every time, so we keep the place heated in the winter when we are not there.  I have a whole-house backup generator which is propane fueled, so not worried about power.
 
I think I will do the following based on your discussions:
  1. Wire the WSV as indicated in the manual.
  2. Use a separate 12VDC power supply that I am currently using to power other peripherals.  Fortunately it is already controlled by a P212S, but I'm not worried by a battery problem with the WSV.
  3. Create a rule that shuts off the water when I leave and turns it back on when I return.  I do this manually now, so it will be one less thing I need to remember.
I NEVER leave the water on whenever I am away from the house.  I made the mistake one time and ended up having to replace the cherry floor in my kitchen with tile because the fitting under the sink failed and leaked for a couple of hours.  Not worth the aggravation and worry.
 
Gary
 
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