Building blocks of a good Home Automation system

[yacobid]

I started out wanting just a robust security system (8 window sensors, 4 doors, 3 motions, indoor siren, outdoor siren) then decided I wanted to add a Z-wave Yale Deadbolt. Then decided it be cool to have lights turn on and off automatically triggered by different events. Would be cool to possible put some audio video equipment by the controller and distribute it throughout the house at some point.

Then I realized a lot has changed since I tried to start a HA Business to go along with a computer repair company back around 2000 when I was playing with a HAI Omni. So I went out and brought a DSC 1832 kit and all the sensors and wiring I need to get that up and running......its been sitting in the box for a week........ starting to question my decision to go DSC

The original plan was:
DCS 1832 with the 8 wireless windows, 4 wireless doors, and 3 hardwired motion
Old PC running Homeseer Pro
Homeseer Z-Troller
Yale Deadbolt
Z-Wave switches and outlets
HS Touch for android phone and tablet
lighting control was still up in the air

I would be great if you guys could help me narrow down the components that would work best for me

I/O CONTROLLER - security panel
I would love to go HAI but plain and simple can't afford it
ELK M1 - still quite expensive and seems redundant if I will be running HA software on a computer
DSC 1832 - Very inexpensive option that has good record of reliability
Other........

Software
Homeseer - seems to do everything, plugin support issues, good community forum
CQC - dont know much about it but seems very focused on audio and video
Elve - know the least about this one

Z-Wave
Homeseer Z-Troller
Leviton VRC0P - not sure about the compatibility of this with controllers or devices
USB Dongle - heard these are crap

Lighting Control (are insteon or upb worth is If I already need Z-Wave for the door lock?)
Z-Wave - wireless so reliability is a concern
Insteon -
UPB -
*looks like Inteon and UPB are very similar, both with report status when operated manually, both can be polled, both require a neutral. The last time I looked at lighting control was over 10 years ago so things seems to have changed drastically since then. Could use some help on this one.

Controlling the system
I believe with just about any of the software programs I can control them from a web interface remotely or locally. Ideally I would like to have a few android tablets laying around with a slick interface to control anything and everything. I would also like a slick interface on my android phone to control everything as well remotely. Are there any that stand out or work well?

Audio and Video
Right now I have windows media center set up with media manager plugin running on a single computer next to the tv. At some point I would like to be able to send video from multiple sources in an AV rack to any TV in the house without additional equipment at each tv. This is a long way off as money is tight and my workaround is using laptops to plug into the TVs as needed


I thank you guys a million times in advance. It was this forum that got me back into HA after a 12 year break, Your knowledge and time is much appreciated. I also plan on documenting my project and posting my experience to serve as a "getting started guide" so I can help those looking to get into this addiction as well

 

[Dean Roddey]

CQC - dont know much about it but seems very focused on audio and video

I've heard other people say this, but I don't know why that would seem to be the case. It's definitely not true. Here is the current list of shipped drivers (there are various other third party ones not shipped with the product.) The product covers all the standard areas of home automation quite well, with something like 225 or so drivers shipped with the product.

http://www.charmedquark.com/Web2/ExtCont_4_x/ExtContent_Devices.htm

 

[yacobid]

Dean - I think a lot of people say this because of how the website is laid out. A lot of the pictures and examples tend to mention multimedia applications. I am looking first for powerful automation tools that let me easily set events based on triggers from sensors from multiple sources (DSC security panel, Z-wave, Insteon, UPB) After doing a ton of research on my own I am sure your software will allow me to do this. Just looking for the one that suits me best

Also in that link I do not see a DSC driver listed, however your forum makes mention of one

 

[drvnbysound]

I just visited the CQC site, and I really don't get that impression. The header alone states [in addition to some media based things as well]:

• "Automatically turn on lights, A/C, shades, etc. at specific times or in response to conditions"
• "Control your sprinklers to optimize resource consumption"
• "Control lights from anywhere in your house"

I guess a number of images in the gallery are media-centric, but there are others sprinkled in that show full HA integration as well... It's certainly a full software suite for HA.

 

[ChrisCicc]

*looks like Inteon and UPB are very similar, both with report status when operated manually, both can be polled, both require a neutral. The last time I looked at lighting control was over 10 years ago so things seems to have changed drastically since then. Could use some help on this one.

FYI Insteon now has a two-wire switch that doesn't require a neutral. Has made life much easier. It's RF only, however.

 

[dgage]

Look up some of my posts for RadioRa2 or RadioRa2 2 for some discussion on the lighting technologies including UPB and Zwave. Also, another Zwave controller to put on your list is Vera or VeraLite though I am just mentioning it as others seem to like it. And depending on how many light switches and devices you plan to have, many with larger setups like to split the technologies with lighting handled by something like UPB or Zwave and other devices like locks or thermostats handled by Zwave or Zigbee.

 

[picta]

dgage, have you installed your switches and what controller do you use to operate them? Curious to know about your experiences with RadioRA as there is not much info available from people who actually used it and who are not the dealers of the product.

 

[dgage]

Not yet but soon as in the next week or two...as I keep promising but trying to finish up a kitchen remodel, of which the RadioRa2 is one aspect of it.  I also need to place another order as I didn't realize there is a remote switch and a remote dimmer switch and I also plan to get a couple occupancy sensors at the same time.  In the short term I don't plan to use a controller as I will just use the built in RadioRa2 functionality, which could provide some good info on its own.  In the long term, I plan to buy CQC since Dean recently added RadioRa2 support, which is the only one of the main HA software packages to have support.  Later on I will add a HAI Omnipro II and I chose it over the Elk primarily due to the $300 add on required to interface the Elk with RadioRa2.
 
Sorry for the delay in getting the info out there as I know there is limited information out there about the system but I will do so soon.
 
David

 

[ChrisCicc]

Not yet but soon as in the next week or two...as I keep promising but trying to finish up a kitchen remodel, of which the RadioRa2 is one aspect of it.  I also need to place another order as I didn't realize there is a remote switch and a remote dimmer switch and I also plan to get a couple occupancy sensors at the same time.  In the short term I don't plan to use a controller as I will just use the built in RadioRa2 functionality, which could provide some good info on its own.  In the long term, I plan to buy CQC since Dean recently added RadioRa2 support, which is the only one of the main HA software packages to have support.  Later on I will add a HAI Omnipro II and I chose it over the Elk primarily due to the $300 add on required to interface the Elk with RadioRa2.
 
Sorry for the delay in getting the info out there as I know there is limited information out there about the system but I will do so soon.
 
David

 
Are you still looking at potentially using Insteon? If so, take a look at our new software as the central controller. Works great with tablets. Right now the current version supports X10 and Insteon only, but Z-Wave is coming in a few short weeks. I have the Yale locks at my home as well, so you can rest assured CastleOS will control them. RadioRa is in the pipeline too, but I don't know when we'll add support for it. Trying to support the most common protocols first. 

 

[EDP]

Any updates dgage?  I'm still on the fence with UPB vs. RadioRa2.

 

[Dean Roddey]

If you can afford RA2, then I would do it. Not to put down UPB or Z-Wave or whoever, but I don't think that they would deny that their systems do cost less than Lutron for a legitimate reason. They are just targeting a different market. The Lutron system is a pro level system, and there's just a whole other expectation of reliability and stabilty in the pro world. You pay for that difference, and that's why consumer systems target the price ranges they do.
 
If a consumer level system is what you can afford, go for it and don't be embarrassed to do so. But, if you can afford to go pro level it's always likely going to be the better choice.

 

[dgage]

EDP - I just had my RadioRa2 switches installed today.  Due to a winter storm, I didn't get my other shipment Friday so I didn't get all of the switches installed that I wanted but I did get my kitchen installed. 
 
First, my configuration, which is 3 sides of a kitchen. (Third side is because that was where a switch was for the breakfast nook and I couldn't remove it)
1. Entrance from garage to kitchen
Switch 1: Garage light (Not RadioRa 2 yet due to late shipment)
Switch 2: RRD-10ND dimmer (controls main recessed cans)
Switch 3: RRD-H6BRL hybrid 6 button keypad (controls local load - counter lights)
 
2. Opposite side of kitchen
Switch 1: RDRD remote dimmer (controls main recessed cans)
Switch 2: RRD-H6BRL hybrid 6 button keypad (controls local load - floor rope light)
 
3. Breakfast nook
Switch 1: RRD-H6BRL hybrid 6 button keypad (controls local load - Island pendants)
 
Keeping in mind that I just set them up and have used them for less than a day, here are my thoughts. 
 
1. Setting up (programming) the system has a slight ramp (mainly hybrid keypads) but wasn't difficult and fairly elegant.  Not a ton of options.  No double taps that UPB and other switches have (at least that I have seen).
2. The switches will control a local load even if you haven't setup the system and paired with the Main Repeater.
3. Status is instantaneous.  If I press a button or switch, all of the hybrid keypads update instantaneously.  Also, I have an All Off button on the hybrid keypads and it lights up green once all of the other kitchen lights turn off.
4. Nice feature (although you pay for it) is that the hybrid keypads come with a voucher for free engraving.  Until you get the personalized engraving, the switch comes with 3 sheets of labels to identify your buttons appropriately.
5. Small thing that I would rarely use but when I was putting the labels on the hybrid keypad buttons, there is an off switch that you can pull out to disable the switch.
6. Switches are nicely constructed and seem to work perfectly.
 
Overall, I like the system but it is small and I don't have anything exotic installed.  In the shipment I am expecting are some remote switches (non-dimmer) that I needed for the garage and a few other places.  Also, I have a couple occupancy sensors coming.  So I will be able to give more information soon but so far so good.
 
One reminder before people get too excited about RadioRa 2.  I haven't read anything negative about RadioRa 2 except for the cost and dealer oriented distribution.  To get the software (first tier for up to 100 devices) I had to watch some training videos online, take a 1.5 hour online course, take an exam, and then buy the RadioRa 2 Starter Kit (or equivalent).  Lookup Lutron RadioRa 2 Blast Training for more info.  So some will (rightly?) complain about the controlled distribution but it was not hard to get access to the first tier of the software.  Cost is more expensive than UPB or Zwave but RadioRa 2 seems more coherent with more elegant options available than any other lighting system I saw besides other closed systems.  RadioRa 2 has a myriad of dimmers, switches, occupancy/vacancy sensors, temperature controls, light level sensors, etc that are all wireless and don't eat batteries like crazy.  So it is a nice system but it isn't perfect. 
 
Oh yeah, one other shortcoming...RadioRa 2 has limited support in HA software with CQC being the only one that I know of that has support of the main software (Elve, CQC, Homeseer).  Hardware wise, HAI has an interface that you simply need to integrate with a serial port.  Elk requires a ~$300 add-on to integrate with RadioRa 2.
 
Just wanted to give a quick update since there is so little info on RadioRa 2 out there.  I will give more info in the future as I expand the system and learn more about it.
 
David

 

[DanielHeth]

I started out wanting just a robust security system (8 window sensors, 4 doors, 3 motions, indoor siren, outdoor siren) then decided I wanted to add a Z-wave Yale Deadbolt. Then decided it be cool to have lights turn on and off automatically triggered by different events. Would be cool to possible put some audio video equipment by the controller and distribute it throughout the house at some point.

Then I realized a lot has changed since I tried to start a HA Business to go along with a computer repair company back around 2000 when I was playing with a HAI Omni. So I went out and brought a DSC 1832 kit and all the sensors and wiring I need to get that up and running......its been sitting in the box for a week........ starting to question my decision to go DSC

The original plan was:
DCS 1832 with the 8 wireless windows, 4 wireless doors, and 3 hardwired motion
Old PC running Homeseer Pro
Homeseer Z-Troller
Yale Deadbolt
Z-Wave switches and outlets
HS Touch for android phone and tablet
lighting control was still up in the air

 

 
yacobid: 
The system you've described looks good from where I'm sitting...
 
You've nearly described by exact system. I've been in and out of HA since 97 and in late 2000 I had my college senior project related to programming an interface for X10 etc...
anyways. Now my system consists of the following:
HomeSeer Pro with HS Touch for devices (iphones, ipads, etc).
I have a mix of X10 and ZWave modules for controlling various things.  I'm buying ZWave from now on due to better reliability over x10 and the mesh network which helps eliminate signal issues (I use several of zwave appliance modules and the thermostat to propagate the signals.)
I have multi-sensors (motion/temp/illumination) in sensitive rooms (my computer closet, etc.)
I just finished installing the DSC 1864 security panel and have plans to wire up all 17 doors, 2 garage doors, and 16 windows into the system.  Nearly every room will have a motion sensor as well.  Not all sensors will be used for triggering alarms... most are just for status which is reported to HomeSeer via IT100 and a USB-Serial converter connection.  
Eventually I'll add door locks like the one you've described.
 
The system is acting very reliable and i'm satisfied with the results.  DSC was a great choice since it is fully compatible with the HomeSeer software... The pro comes with a free HomeSeer branded plugin for communicating with DSC and I haven't had any problems with it.