DIY HAI?

[Neurorad]

thanks for everyone's input - keep it coming

Danny - I've spent some time on your new site, and Myro:home looks great. I understand you may be a bit biased toward HAI

I'll withhold judgement until I've spent some time on the Worthington HAI forum, and I've read through several of the HAI manuals.

I'm halfway through the (somewhat dated) OPII install manual - looks like Elk has better keypads; perhaps I should get my hands on a newer manual. I bet most people who buy an HAI controller end up with one or more touchscreens. I'll be starting with 3 keypads myself.

 

[PaulD]

Thanks for this info Paul. Can you provide a link to the example on Worthington's site? I've wired 18/4 for LV smokes. Currently each one is an independent run back to the OPII and not chained. Not sure if I should leave it like this or just chain them...

CB

I was unable to find the link I refered to on Worthington but I have a copy and can email it to you. Check your messages for my email.

The document turned out to be an HAI document but this info is not in the Omni Pro II installation manual. The approach uses 4 wire installation with a DSC polarity reversing module and other DSC components with 4 wire DSC smoke alarms to get the job done.

 

[PaulD]

I was unable to find the link I refered to on Worthington .....

I found it. Worthington link is here but all it has is a PDF of the HAI document I noted earlier.

 

[Steve]

As an fyi I think the latest HAI manual is 2.16 from December 2007. I believe the HAI strategy is to just publish additional firmware release supplements to the manual. So, if you have the 2.16 manual from 12/07 you have the latest, and just need the latest 12 page firmware supplement.

 

[ano]

As an fyi I think the latest HAI manual is 2.16 from December 2007. I believe the HAI strategy is to just publish additional firmware release supplements to the manual. So, if you have the 2.16 manual from 12/07 you have the latest, and just need the latest 12 page firmware supplement.

The latest firmware is 3.0a Version 3.0 adds lots more functionality, especially in PC Access. There are lots of changes so get the latest guide, but it should come with the panel when you purchase it. Until then, the 2.14 guide on Worthington really should be close enough. There are not that many actual installation changes from 2.14 to 3.0 from a HW view.

Between Worthington, Automated Outlet and HAI customer service, you shouldn't have any problem getting it going if you have some basic electronic skills.

I found using a "pro" system over a "DYI" system does have some advantages. When you do call HAI, you'll discover that they are VERY good at solving just about any problem, because between training installers, and working with installers, there is really no problem they haven't seen.

 

[Neurorad]

I have install manual 2.16 - thought it was old, for some reason. Maybe 2002 was in the name of the file that I downloaded?

Overall, the system is very similar to Elk.

I prefer Elk's keypads, over the HAI - 3 to choose from vs. 1 Lumina. I really don't like the esthetics of the Elk (looks like 80s retro purple and green, reminds me of the Russound keypads), but I like those 'fast function buttons'.

I see the same lighting 'partners' for HAI as for Elk. I don't want to be stuck using HAI thermostats, but I'm pretty sure there are as many options with the OPII as with the M1.

Touchscreens from both vendors are lacking in customization, but 3rd party software can be used to 'roll your own' touchscreen for either.

Telephone control and voice announcements seem similar.

I think I'll have to read up on the programming more, and explore the Worthington HAI forum.

 

[nexus99]

I have install manual 2.16 - thought it was old, for some reason. Maybe 2002 was in the name of the file that I downloaded?

Overall, the system is very similar to Elk.

I prefer Elk's keypads, over the HAI - 3 to choose from vs. 1 Lumina. I really don't like the esthetics of the Elk (looks like 80s retro purple and green, reminds me of the Russound keypads), but I like those 'fast function buttons'.

I see the same lighting 'partners' for HAI as for Elk. I don't want to be stuck using HAI thermostats, but I'm pretty sure there are as many options with the OPII as with the M1.

Touchscreens from both vendors are lacking in customization, but 3rd party software can be used to 'roll your own' touchscreen for either.

Telephone control and voice announcements seem similar.

I think I'll have to read up on the programming more, and explore the Worthington HAI forum.

HAI is releasing a new touchscreen custimization tool from what I hear.

 

[icellama21]

I've found HAI to be a lot easier to install and integrate, IF you are using HAI products. You can pretty much buy hardware from their ecosystem and it will work pretty well. No need to debate interfaces, additional hardware needed, features supported, which brand is most compatible, etc. If it says it will do something, it will. So much easier than worrying if a switch will give the right status. Then again, it may not work with your existing hardware and you have less choices.

HAI is definitely not pro-only, as martin suggested from AO, just get the installer manual and software from your dealer. It is pretty similar to ELK, but do make sure to get the software and documentation with your purchase. HAI recently has seemed more or equally responsive on cocoontech as ELK, most questions are quickly answered and they have shown a true willingness to investigate. Drop some questions in their forum.

Look closely at the feature sets of the controllers. HAI has some pretty cool accessories that ELK can't match if you are the kind that just wants to buy a working solution. Large range of remote control/touchscreen products, russound integration is nice if you have russound(ELK has been talking about adding this for a year or so now ...), nice line of thermostats, no need to buy serial or ethernet expanders, etc. ELK can do almost everything HAI can do, but HAI makes it easier to install and the integration is more refined when you stick to their ecosystem. Personally I enjoy tinkering and making things work, and ELK supports a few hardware accessories that HAI does not, so I prefer ELK. But if I had to do it again, HAI seems more future-proof.

 

[Neurorad]

HAI is releasing a new touchscreen custimization tool from what I hear.

HAI Automation Studio, press release last month 3/09, single screen shot available.

Vaporware until proven otherwise.

HAI certainly outperforms Elk...in marketing.

The Myro:Home software would be a much more flexible alternative to the HAI-branded product, I bet. Maybe it's rebranded Myro:home?

 

[Neurorad]

I've found HAI to be a lot easier to install and integrate, IF you are using HAI products. You can pretty much buy hardware from their ecosystem and it will work pretty well. No need to debate interfaces, additional hardware needed, features supported, which brand is most compatible, etc. If it says it will do something, it will. So much easier than worrying if a switch will give the right status. Then again, it may not work with your existing hardware and you have less choices.

Good to hear from a pro who has installed both. But as you say, you're limited to HAI products - which I'm not a big fan of doing, particularly for lighting control.

Look closely at the feature sets of the controllers. HAI has some pretty cool accessories that ELK can't match if you are the kind that just wants to buy a working solution. Large range of remote control/touchscreen products, russound integration is nice if you have russound(ELK has been talking about adding this for a year or so now ...), nice line of thermostats, no need to buy serial or ethernet expanders, etc. ELK can do almost everything HAI can do, but HAI makes it easier to install and the integration is more refined when you stick to their ecosystem. Personally I enjoy tinkering and making things work, and ELK supports a few hardware accessories that HAI does not, so I prefer ELK. But if I had to do it again, HAI seems more future-proof.

The Nevo integration appears seamless - would be a nice option.
Russound integration with the Elk, I thought, was released a year ago. It's the Nuvo that they're working on now - should be out with the next FW update. Anyways, I really like the Nuvo keypads for music selection. In the future (1-4 years), a couple of my keypads will be replaced by touchscreens, and I really like CQC (though I'm not married to the system).

 

[Steve]

HAI is releasing a new touchscreen custimization tool from what I hear.

HAI Automation Studio, press release last month 3/09, single screen shot available.

Vaporware until proven otherwise.

HAI certainly outperforms Elk...in marketing.

The Myro:Home software would be a much more flexible alternative to the HAI-branded product, I bet. Maybe it's rebranded Myro:home?

Myro:Home from what I've seen seems to be a nice easy to implement out of the box solution for somebody that just wants a nice interface and to be done with it. OTOH, I did see a live working demo of HAI Automation Studio at Ehx and it is much further along than vaporware. It looked pretty close to release to me. And it will be much more flexible and complete in allowing you to build a custom touchscreen interface. It looked to me kind of like a simplified CQC that just worked directly with HAI. It looked like every graphic (button, picture, etc) could be linked to a particular field or 'rule' in the system. I think it will be very similar to the Elk RMS Designer.

 

[Gduncan]

HAI Automation Studio, press release last month 3/09, single screen shot available.

Vaporware until proven otherwise.

The Myro:Home software would be a much more flexible alternative to the HAI-branded product, I bet. Maybe it's rebranded Myro:home?

There is a Webinar showing a beta version of HAI Automation Studio next Thursday at 2:00 PM (Central Time USA). Go to http://www.homeauto.com/Webinar to register if you want to check it out. The software will be released in the 2nd Quarter.

Myro:home is a different product than HAI Automation Studio.

 

[Steve]

I've found HAI to be a lot easier to install and integrate, IF you are using HAI products. You can pretty much buy hardware from their ecosystem and it will work pretty well. No need to debate interfaces, additional hardware needed, features supported, which brand is most compatible, etc. If it says it will do something, it will. So much easier than worrying if a switch will give the right status. Then again, it may not work with your existing hardware and you have less choices.

Good to hear from a pro who has installed both. But as you say, you're limited to HAI products - which I'm not a big fan of doing, particularly for lighting control.

HAI will support many of the same 3rd party systems (especially lighting) that Elk does, they even support Homeworks. I think what icellama was trying to say was that HAI makes several of their own devices and those are very easy to integrate. So like you have ethernet onboard and easy to configure, HAI stats simply wire direct into the main board, etc. But you can still use many third party lighting systems such as Centralite, Lutron, etc. You just connect their bridges to an onboard serial port. I'm not sure though about the light status comment. I think that is much more a lighting protocol issue than a controller issue. Take for example UPB. Since in the protocol/hardware itself, a switch does not transmit status when the load is changed via a link, that status is simply not going to show up correctly, regardless of the controller. That being said, if the controller was setup to do polling and look for status changes, then it would sync back up, but the controller would have to contain firmware to work around the design of the protocol.

 

[Neurorad]

HAI Automation Studio, press release last month 3/09, single screen shot available.

Vaporware until proven otherwise.

The Myro:Home software would be a much more flexible alternative to the HAI-branded product, I bet. Maybe it's rebranded Myro:home?

There is a Webinar showing a beta version of HAI Automation Studio next Thursday at 2:00 PM (Central Time USA). Go to http://www.homeauto.com/Webinar to register if you want to check it out. The software will be released in the 2nd Quarter.

Myro:home is a different product than HAI Automation Studio.

Thanks, Greer. Good to know. Thanks for proving otherwise!

Would Myro:home be a competitor for HAI Automation Studio? That is, do they do the same thing?

 

[dutchyn]

The system is very easy to install and program, however, I don't know your level of competence when it comes to electronics and programming. Key is to focus on the system design, where sensors will be placed and how you want the system to work.

As a PhD computer science, focussing on software engineering, logic, and hardware-level programming, the programming is a non-issue -- except I can't find anything that tells me how one even connects and writes the scripts. Elk at least provided their ELK-RM and ELK-RS documentation -- slim as it is.

HAI supports all major lighting systems that are worth installing... insteon is not, IMHO, considered a "professional" product.

When I go to the Elk site, I can download the driver firmware notes, that convince me I have access to the materials I need to connect an ALC controller, or an Aprillaire thermostat, or an ethernet remote control. The HAI products don't have that information easily found -- I still don't know where to look.

Overall, I wanted an HAI system -- the trouble of adding extra serial ports, more inputs etc. via extra cards was not optimal. But, I just couldn't find the information to be able to plan out my system with HAI before buying. With Elk I got that confidence that I knew what (many) pieces were needed and how to assemble them.

As for thermostats, the RC1000 or RC2000 is very slick.

I agree, and that's what I ended up going with; but until I compared the offerings I wasn't going to limit my system because of thermostats -- I spent more on them than on the ELK main board.

Chris